BAT 1750-new high watermark? - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 05:11 PM
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I still want to know if the tail lights on the Bat car are correct, would anyone like to comment?
Tim
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post #17 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 05:45 PM
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I still want to know if the tail lights on the Bat car are correct, would anyone like to comment?
Tim
Bat car that just sold is not correct for 69 USA spica gtv. The lenses should be all red

But that doesn’t mean it’s isn’t a proper usa spica car.. I haven’t looked at all the pics yet.
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post #18 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 05:51 PM
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Another 69 GTV on BAT ... this time Euro spec with 69 US front bumper https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-romeo-gtv-23/
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post #19 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 06:04 PM
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Hi Steve, I think you crossed up a few digits. The car is indeed a '69 USA GTV. It rolled down the line 14 cars after mine, which was made on March 13th, and arrived in the US in April of 1969. BTW, the actual serial # of the BaT car is AR1530344.

I agree with all the sentiments about the '69s. I also have '74 and, although I am very fond of both, the '69 wins on all fronts.
I have a 69 and did have a 74 as well. I believe the 74 is a more athletic driver. It has an lsd that changes the handling characteristics, more low end punch, itís also lighter and has a stronger stiffer chassis

For me I must agree with you that the 69 has a degree of aesthetic refinement and a tactile quality that the 74 canít match. At times my 69 felt more like a ferrari than the two 308ís I had. Itís why I kept the 69.
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post #20 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 06:26 PM
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Ranz, the year of a car is determined by when it was first sold. It is stupid but car sales men probably made it this way otherwise how would they move slow selling cars, i.e. who would buy a year old car when a current year one is available for the same price.

My 156v6 is an example. It's papers say it is a 2002, but it was actually built in 2001 ... so to me it's a 2001 but the parts shops correct me and say it says 2002 in our computer ...
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
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post #21 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 10:44 PM
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Guys, I have owned both a 69 USA version and a Euro version GT, and a 69 Spider USA, so two with Spica and one with carbs. Obviously a few variations here but shouldn't we go with build dates confirmed by the factory? Fact or not, even Fusi has been questioned in the past. I guess my point is the 69s were a blend of parts transitioning from the 67s to the 72s. So rule out the 71s with blending with the 72s, and as we have seen there were carryover components. If memory serves my EuroGT was a 68 with side intake (not cross over like the 67s). My point is common ground, If the Factory says it is a 69USA, then that's what it is regardless of when it was sold, etc.
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post #22 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 04:26 AM
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Please correct me if I am wrong or someone has already commented but the tail lights on this car aren't correct for a US 69 model.
Tim
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Tim, if you mean the amber turn signal lense... well those are still found NOS and the repops as well. The all red ones are much harder to find and I don't think they were ever repopped. Sometimes it's better to be good than absolutely correct for the market..there is no inspection that will fail them.
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post #23 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 05:25 AM
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New owner of the '69 is the same one that just picked up the '72 GTV on BaT. Dealer or maybe someone really likes GTV's.
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post #24 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 05:36 AM
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I think I have my digits all crossed up, thanks to all for the correction.
Looks like Fusi's page 844 which lists 1969 GTV 1750 USA as AR 1533348 to AR1533987. Is this not correct?

Just checked Alfa 105 register owners have listed their cars AR1530148 to AR1530856 as being 1969 cars. Certainly the car sold on BAT is in this range.
Cheers Steve
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post #25 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 05:40 AM
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Ranz, the year of a car is determined by when it was first sold. It is stupid but car sales men probably made it this way otherwise how would they move slow selling cars, i.e. who would buy a year old car when a current year one is available for the same price.

My 156v6 is an example. It's papers say it is a 2002, but it was actually built in 2001 ... so to me it's a 2001 but the parts shops correct me and say it says 2002 in our computer ...
Pete
That's true in every part of the planet but the US. In the US, new cars typically come out in the fall. So, a 2019 model year car will have been manufactured sometime in 2018. Now, back in the day, there were many Alfas manufactured in 1968 that were sold as 1969 model years.....in the US

There are a number of US spec, SPICA injected cars that are sold as 1969 and 1970 model year cars. Some of these cars were manufactured in 1970.

I think it's important to make note of both dates.

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post #26 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 06:38 AM
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Why rule out the 71s ?

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Originally Posted by deepblue View Post
Guys, I have owned both a 69 USA version and a Euro version GT, and a 69 Spider USA, so two with Spica and one with carbs. Obviously a few variations here but shouldn't we go with build dates confirmed by the factory? Fact or not, even Fusi has been questioned in the past. I guess my point is the 69s were a blend of parts transitioning from the 67s to the 72s. So rule out the 71s with blending with the 72s, and as we have seen there were carryover components. If memory serves my EuroGT was a 68 with side intake (not cross over like the 67s). My point is common ground, If the Factory says it is a 69USA, then that's what it is regardless of when it was sold, etc.
For the USA market the 1600 GT transitioned to the 1600 GTV transitioned to the S1 USA 1750 GTV transitioned to the S2 USA 1750 GTV transitioned to the USA version 2000 GTV. What I am trying to say is for me the year it was made or sold does not matter that much, it is more about what the car is. If a S1 USA 1750 GTV was made in 68, 69 or 70 what's the difference they are all the same unless the # 69 has more value than the #68 or #70.
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http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa-romeo-club-canada-toronto-chapter/149533-alfa-parts-garage-sale.html

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post #27 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 06:51 AM
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[snip]
..., it’s also lighter and has a stronger stiffer chassis
[snip]
Err.. what, how so - curious minds need to know??

If anything, in my mind, it will be heavier as Alfa increased the gauge of the steel used in certain sections?
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post #28 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 07:36 AM
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Pardon my ignorance, I’m still learning about these old Alfa’s! but what’s special about a 1969 model?
I think this was the original question.. I spoke to Craig Morningstar who was the factory rep in the US. He said basically AR sold no new cars here in '68 and introduced the '69 FI with seats and small tail lights in '69 and were US legal. In 1970, AR had a problem with emissions again and went back to the drawing board with the SPICA and there was no fix as standards changed. Then there is the case where some states registered a car as new when first registered... so technically some '69's could be put on the road in 1970 as 70's depending on the state's registration rules so again no cars were sold . Then '71 rolled around and AR was back in business with tweeked timing and over-run emission controls that put them back in business at which time the big tail lights and standard seats became the model. So in conclusion the small tail light cars with buttress seats have been simply referred to as "69's" regardless of when they were made or where they were registered and it was the only iteration of the car in the US in '69. The 'legal 71's" were the next breed with standard seats and bigger tail lights and they were the last 1750's with the 2 liters to follow being introduced in mid to late '71 as '72's. So in some states even though a sticker on the windshield called the car by it's model year the new buyer would have the year of registration tacked onto his title depending on the state in which it was first registered..

All very complicated but the best I can do to make it sensible.
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Last edited by divotandtralee; 03-08-2019 at 07:42 AM.
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post #29 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 07:38 AM
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Yes, thanks Brad! I think you said it better. S1 1750 and S2 1750.
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post #30 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 07:45 AM
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I think this was the original question.. I spoke to Craig Morningstar who was the factory rep in the US. He said basically AR sold no new cars here in '68 and introduced the '69 FI with seats and small tail lights in '69 and were US legal. In 1970, AR had a problem with emissions again and went back to the drawing board with the SPICA and there was no fix as standards changed. Then there is the case where some states registered a car as new when first registered... so technically some '69's could be put on the road in 1970 as 70's depending on the state's registration rules so again no cars were sold . Then '71 rolled around and AR was back in business with tweeked timing and over-run emission controls that put them back in business at which time the big tail lights and standard seats became the model. So in conclusion the small tail light cars with buttress seats have been simply referred to as "69's" regardless of when they were made or where they were registered and it was the only iteration of the car in the US in '69. The 'legal 71's" were the next breed with standard seats and bigger tail lights and they were the last 1750's with the 2 liters to follow being introduced in mid to late '71 as '72's. So in some states even though a sticker on the windshield called the car by it's model year the new buyer would have the year of registration tacked onto his title depending on the state in which it was first registered..

All very complicated but the best I can do to make it sensible.

thats how i remembered it...
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