Steering cowl fouling on wheel - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Steering cowl fouling on wheel

Hi I am restoring a car which was stripped already. 1971 Giulia GTV 1750 RHD. When i fit the steering wheel after the cowl it is too tight and stops the horn from working and rubs.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Chris
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 01:11 AM
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Yep!!

Here is what I did as I had the same issue, when I mounted my Hellebore Stepnose GTV bakelite wheel.

first of all remove your steering wheel from the steering column. With the steering wheel of the steering column ...when you look at the conus (very light conus it is) of the steering column... you will notice a woodruff key (sort of semi-circular piece of hardened steel sitting in a groove)... the trick is:

1) to clean the conus pretty well (Brake cleaner fluid on a towels works fine) and...

2) To stick a bit of wowen tape (cotton insulation tape) around the column... exactly to the level of the area where the woordruff sits leaving the woodruf key free of tape (short wrap a piece of wowen-tape around the column but leave the woordruff key free of any tape).

The thickness of the wowen-tape, is just enough to allow the steering wheel to pass by/slip on the column... but thick enough to avoid the wheel to move to deep on the column (in direction of the dashboard if you prefer)...

You may ask why it must be a woven isulation tape? Answer: it's less compressable and less prone to tear than a normal PVC tape

and now comes the fun-part.... When putting the wheel back on the column, connect the wires, test the "BeepBeep horn", and pace the weehl on the coumn... press it down on the column by hand force only pushing it towards the dashboard.....test the beeeping.... if it Beeps fine and your happy whith the beep-beeping then... only then... place the locking washer on the columns... and screw GENTLY... GENTLY.... the wheel nut down on the slightly "Loctited" column thread....while you do so (the screwing) test "Beep Beeping of the horns", continue to screw GENTLY.... test the horns and test the horns repeatedly... until you're happy with the "tightness of the screw) then tap/bend the locking washer (if you can... I didn't as I by god did not understood how this washer can be bent within the wheel recess.... this is why I put some loctite on the nut thread).

In the hope that my lenghty explanations are ... understandable.. and that the issue you face is the same as I did.

Regards.

Thomas

Thomas Linser
(Jan 1967 1300 GT Junior, in bluette w/oxblood skai inetrior)

Last edited by Toli0815; 04-27-2018 at 01:24 AM.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 01:48 AM Thread Starter
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Thx for the info. I will try and digest and implement over the weekend. I may post a few pics as not 100% sure of what you mean by a. Conus and b. woodruf

cheers
Chris
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfanut1750 View Post
Hi I am restoring a car which was stripped already.
Chris:

Would you clarify what "stripped already" means?

Does it mean that you are assembling parts that weren't previously part of this car? E.g., a different steering column, shroud, and/or wheel?

Or does it mean that you are re-using the original parts, but the steering system was disassembled when you got the car? If so, the issue may be the placement of that casting that secures the upper steering column to the body.

The shroud mounts to that casting, so if it is positioned too far back along the column, steering wheel to shroud clearance will be too tight. Try loosening the two bolts that secure the casting to the body, as well as the clamp bolt that secures the casting to the column. Then tap the casting forward, perhaps using a piece of wood as a drift. Does it move enough to give you the clearance that you need?

I didn't understand what a "conus" was either!

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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nearly all parts where off the car when purchased and have found some to be not original and not for my model. I will upload a photo to check is a GTV 1750 cowl shortly.

I had the burman box refurbished so I wonder if the steering column is too far inside the steering column :-) if that makes sense.

thx
Chris
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 08:44 AM
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Hi, I am thinking Thomas' mother tongue is not English and by "conus" he means Taper. His English is quite good otherwise, IMHO. Easy to follow his idea.

But I am not sure I like Thomas' suggested fix as it coulkd lead to loosening down the road.

Jays ideas should lead to a better remedy. Perhaps correcting a miss match of parts or the correct adjustment of the Aluminum column support.

FWIW

Ken
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 08:56 AM Thread Starter
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/q562lhj2y9...cowl1.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nto17pj3pb...cowl2.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tkkb0we79t...cowl3.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d4qchsaqww...wheel.jpg?dl=0

I don't understand why these photos don't appear in this section as I have inserted them as images as well as the links sorry and I'm in IT!

Last edited by Alfanut1750; 04-27-2018 at 09:01 AM.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
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nearly all parts where off the car when purchased and have found some to be not original and not for my model. I will upload a photo to check is a GTV 1750 cowl shortly.
I believe that is the correct shroud. I don't think Alfa produced a lot of variations on the shroud.

Quote:
I had the burman box refurbished so I wonder if the steering column is too far inside the steering column :-) if that makes sense.
I doubt the problem is that "the steering column is too far inside the steering column". I don't think you can assemble a steering box-column in some way that results in a shorter column.

However:

- Is the Burman box-column original to the car? Or was this one of the components that you found were not correct for your GT? E.g., might you have a spider steering box-column? Alfa did vary the length of steering columns between years and models.

- If your steering box was original to your car, are you sure that whoever rebuilt it returned the same unit to you? Or might they have kept your original parts as a "core" and returned an already-rebuilt unit to you? And might that unit have come from a different year/model Alfa?

----------------------
Another thought: Does your car have a solid steering column shaft? E.g., is the steering column solidly attached to the steering box? Or do you have a separate column and box, connected with a U-joint?

My comments above all pertain to a one-piece box-column. But if you have the U-jointed type of steering system, there are other possibilities for mis-alignment.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L

Last edited by Alfajay; 04-27-2018 at 09:14 AM.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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However:

- Is the Burman box-column original to the car? Or was this one of the components that you found were not correct for your GT? E.g., might you have a spider steering box-column? Alfa did vary the length of steering columns between years and models.

Well, the box was on the car when I got it. sorry I can't be more precise.

- If your steering box was original to your car, are you sure that whoever rebuilt it returned the same unit to you? Or might they have kept your original parts as a "core" and returned an already-rebuilt unit to you? And might that unit have come from a different year/model Alfa?
How can I tell if it's for a 1971 RHD Giulia GTV 1750?

----------------------
Another thought: Does your car have a solid steering column shaft? E.g., is the steering column solidly attached to the steering box? Or do you have a separate column and box, connected with a U-joint? solid

My comments above all pertain to a one-piece box-column. But if you have the U-jointed type of steering system, there are other possibilities for mis-alignment.[/QUOTE]
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 09:32 AM
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What I see is a deep dish steering wheel. If that is the original wheel then I think this usually means a short steering column/shaft and a short aluminum support and a short shroud. But I think it is possible to put a deep dish wheel onto a long columned car.

The parts Interchange book (for euro lhd models only) shows for steering box 2 part numbers for 1750 all models and a third part number for for 2000 all models. 2 part numbers for Alu support one for 1750 and another for 2000 I think all 2000 had the deep dish wheel. I think some USA 1750s came with deep dish wheels.

K

Ken Geiger, Toronto
1965 GTA, RHD, Stradale
ex- 1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream
2001 BMW Z3 3.0i

Last edited by kengta; 04-27-2018 at 09:45 AM.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfanut1750 View Post

How can I tell if it's for a 1971 RHD Giulia GTV 1750?
[/QUOTE]

You cannot fit a LHD box/column to a RHD Car. The box casings are mirror images. The parts books do show different box/column and support part numbers for RHD 1750 and for RHD 2000. I think the 2000 is shorter. They show shallow dish wheel for 1750 and deep dish for 2000.

ken

Ken Geiger, Toronto
1965 GTA, RHD, Stradale
ex- 1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream
2001 BMW Z3 3.0i
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
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Well, the box was on the car when I got it. sorry I can't be more precise....How can I tell if it's for a 1971 RHD Giulia GTV 1750?
If the box was on the car when you got it, that provides a bit of evidence that it is probably original to the car.

How can you tell if it's correct? Well, if the steering column is the right length, then it's correct

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 12:21 PM
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HI, here are dimensioned pictures of a long and a short Alu column supports. Can you let us know which you have. Measure between plastic shroud forward and rearward mounting holes. The large holes where the alu support bolts to the chassis are the same spacing and orientation.

K
Attached Images
  

Ken Geiger, Toronto
1965 GTA, RHD, Stradale
ex- 1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream
2001 BMW Z3 3.0i
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 11:56 PM
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Hi,

I am in cambridge, have two length cowls off the car at the moment and a long steering tube Ali bracket , if it’s any help.

Sam


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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-28-2018, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samking View Post
Hi,

I am in cambridge, have two length cowls off the car at the moment and a long steering tube Ali bracket , if it’s any help.

Sam


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Hi Sam, That’s for the kind offer and would probably like to take you up on it. What car do you have? I have however managed to get it to work by...

So the problem is the external shroud which holds the ignition would not move far enough towards the front of the car because of the 2 mounting bolts. My fix was to replace the m10 bolts with M8 ones. This gave me the extra 1mm of clearance i needed. I assume although not ideal but not dangerous as this shroud only steedys the column. The steering column when not connected to the shroud does not move because of the bolts holding the Burman to the side of the chassis.

Thoughts?

Last edited by Alfanut1750; 04-28-2018 at 08:46 AM.
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