New owner 1974 GTV has no idea what he got himself into - Page 13 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 113Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #181 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 11:50 AM
Registered User
 
Tom Frasca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: New York
Posts: 1,753
Garage
Take the bastards to court..

The older I get.. the faster I was....
Tom
Tom Frasca is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 05:23 PM
Registered User
 
Yachtman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Stuart, Fl
Posts: 977
Garage
Evermore. Here's what I'd do, but the story is first.
I bought a '70 GT 1300 jr that had a 2.0L transplant. All excited after looking at photos, and after quite a few (read, many!) phone conversations I bought it. Trusty, I am. So the car gets delivered and it's just like I thought it would be. Nothing perfect, but after all the calls and questions prior to purchase, it wasn't depressing. It was only meant to be a fun driver, and I was told it wasn't perfect. So the car goes into my storage for 3-4 days, and then I bring it home to get all anal on it and do my usual 'get to know everything' detail. First a wash and I find some untold rust. Another few days go by and as I'm working on the wheels, I find inner wheel well issues. Still not 'too' upsetting, but I'm getting less than happy. Another 1/2 week goes by before I can have some fun cleaning the blue over tan again. Now, keep in mind, I'm driving this awesome sounding little GT, our first GT, with lots of power. And it had air conditioning, custom installed. Oh, the fun it was slamming the go-pedal. But the rust starts accumulating and it's everywhere. The rockers in the hard to see areas are almost chipping away. Stuff that was hidden well. Anyway, you can imagine my own embarrassment when looking at myself in the mirror.
The car was sold to us by a partner of a well known dealer, the engine worked on and car maintained by the owner/collectors (Ferrari class) mechanic and then on to us. Hell, it was delivered to me with another car in the trailer. A freshly restored blue over oxblood, 250 California. Wow!!
I was very busy with work, but eventually it's week three and I find this rust in the foot box right below the pedals (picture, you should think of it as a broken suspension coil spring). Holy crap, I ask myself, was the 2liter fun so influential in my not looking closer, faster. Duh.
I also remembered every call and every text, letter, and email in which I asked very particular questions regarding rust. The point is I was lied to. Not twisted, or coerced. Flat out lied to.
So I called the partner first. I said that I was about to send him some very serious photos and copies of etc, etc, etc......
It's so incriminating that he first asked if I wanted my money back, and/or what...... I said good by, and that he should look for the new email I was about to send him and that I'd be happy to spread the information to the high end dealer network that they spend their lives involved in. Oh, also that I'm sure the internet world would love the info.
He then offered to wire transfer all the money the next day including shipping one way and would have the shipper call me right away. I figured the $500 out of my pocket was a good and inexpensive lesson to myself.
So, my advise, is to use the power of accurate threats (!!!!!). As long as the info you tell is correct. Meaning the internet world can be used both ways.
You have enough qualified opinions and information right now from this source (our fellow bb'ers!), and from the sources you have used to inspect the car.
If the seller is a third as smart as they think they are, and before this really spreads and gets out of hand, they'll also run to their bank and wire transfer you your funds back. You were sold the most 'unsafe' car in the world. Unsafe, unsafe, unsafe..... that car could 'kill' you. And your family. Just offer to pay the one way shipping fee.
(Sorry for the long winded story. The above story is true, but might have some 'story telling' type inaccuracies)
����
Attached Images
 
autobroker and evermore like this.

[B][I][U]Current[/U][/I][/B]
1984 Spider Veloce Deluxe
1969 GT 1300 JR
1969 1750 Spica Spider Veloce
1963 MGB
1952 MG TD
Others??!!!😃😃

Last edited by Yachtman; 04-06-2018 at 05:26 PM.
Yachtman is online now  
post #183 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 07:52 PM
Registered User
 
Tom Frasca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: New York
Posts: 1,753
Garage
Sue the bastards..

The older I get.. the faster I was....
Tom
Tom Frasca is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #184 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frasca View Post
Sue the bastards..
lol
evermore is offline  
post #185 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 08:21 PM
Registered User
 
Yachtman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Stuart, Fl
Posts: 977
Garage
Getting an attorney costs money. You're already at a loss. Rather than spend money on that, you might as well turn it into a track car and have fun. Otherwise, you're spinning the money wheel. Yeah, you might win and also get your misc fees back. Buts that's time consuming. Who knows how soon you'll get to court. Maybe your attorney writes the letter to them stating everything you've gone through, but you'll still pay them. You already have all the tools you need to try to get your cash back. You need to stop and kick ***. Remember that you were sold a probable death trap, and they knew it. God only knows when you'd get hurt. I don't care what you signed, in duress, to get that car. Your family could die in it. I'd like to see some photos put on the bb right now. Start them realizing you're serious. You already know, that they know, they did wrong. Play this to your favor. Otherwise time will work against you no matter which way you try. Seriously, what have you to lose??

[B][I][U]Current[/U][/I][/B]
1984 Spider Veloce Deluxe
1969 GT 1300 JR
1969 1750 Spica Spider Veloce
1963 MGB
1952 MG TD
Others??!!!😃😃

Last edited by Yachtman; 04-18-2018 at 07:36 PM.
Yachtman is online now  
post #186 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yachtman View Post
Getting an attorney costs money. You're already at a loss. Rather than spend money on that, you might as well turn it into a track car and have fun. Otherwise, you're spinning the money wheel. Yeah, you might win and also get your misc fees back. Buts that's time consuming. Who knows how soon you'll get to court. Maybe your attorney writes the letter to them stating everything you've gone through, but you'll still pay them. You already have all the tools you need to try to get your cash back. You need to stop and kick ***. Remember that you were sold a probably death trap, and they knew it. God only knows when you'd get hurt. I don't care what you signed, in duress, to get that car. Your family could die in it. I'd like to see some photos put on the bb right now. Start them realizing you're serious. You already know, that they know, they did wrong. Play this to your favor. Otherwise time will work against you no matter which way you try. Seriously, what have you to lose??
Thanks for the story and I do take your advice. I have actually contacted a lawyer but hopefully things can be done with the threat alone. We will see. I laughed at Tom as that's the third time he said it
evermore is offline  
post #187 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 06:53 AM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
gigem75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Texas
Posts: 6,324
I see my review is still on their FB page, at least it shows up for me. If they start hemming and hawing about some sort of restitution you might say there are many more potential FB reviews telling an honest story about your experience with them. I have no doubt you signed away just about any rights you might have when you signed whatever you signed with them but they also have an obligation to tell you the truth and represent the car accurately so whatever you signed isn't worth the paper it's written on. I'm not an attorney I just play one on tv.
autobroker likes this.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
gigem75 is offline  
post #188 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 11:10 AM
Registered User
 
Tom Frasca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: New York
Posts: 1,753
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by evermore View Post
Thanks for the story and I do take your advice. I have actually contacted a lawyer but hopefully things can be done with the threat alone. We will see. I laughed at Tom as that's the third time he said it
Anything you signed is void if they committed fraud. They have to disclose material defects that they were aware of...

Hiding a lemon. When buying a used car, always run a vehicle history report and have an independent mechanic inspect the car. If a DEALER misrepresents a carís condition to conceal that the car is a lemon or was involved in a crash, he is practicing fraud. I would suggest you cap the amount of the suite to drag them to small claims court $10,000 in California.. and represent yourself, you will win (hopefully) and be able to go on with the repairs. (partially funded).

https://store.nolo.com/products/ever...rnia-cscc.html

The older I get.. the faster I was....
Tom
Tom Frasca is online now  
post #189 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 11:25 AM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
gigem75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Texas
Posts: 6,324
It continually blows my mind how people can stand in front of a crowd or face to face and just plain lie through their teeth. I would be interested to know their rational for not allowing a PPI by one's own mechanic if that really is true. Seems like I saw that somewhere else. I don't see how you can lose a small claim. The broken spring and twenty year old tires alone should be enough.
autobroker likes this.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
gigem75 is offline  
post #190 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 12:20 PM
Registered User
 
Tom Frasca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: New York
Posts: 1,753
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigem75 View Post
It continually blows my mind how people can stand in front of a crowd or face to face and just plain lie through their teeth. I would be interested to know their rational for not allowing a PPI by one's own mechanic if that really is true. Seems like I saw that somewhere else. I don't see how you can lose a small claim. The broken spring and twenty year old tires alone should be enough.
If the dealer has a policy of no PPI they then position themselves as experts and are certifying the vehicle to a certain standard,
THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION STANDARD OF PRACTICE FOR DEALERS
" Furthermore, the vehicle must meet all safety requirements as set forth by the Department of Motor Vehicles. If a dealer fails to follow these guidelines, or misrepresents any of the information in the Buyer’s Guide, the buyer may be entitled to damages".

The older I get.. the faster I was....
Tom
Tom Frasca is online now  
post #191 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 05:32 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
gigem75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Texas
Posts: 6,324
you're preaching to the choir on that one I convinced myself 40 posts ago but good information for Evermore, I hope he gets somewhere with those clowns.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
gigem75 is offline  
post #192 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-10-2018, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 80
short update

For those whose popcorn is going stale, just letting you know that I'm working with a lawyer now who is reviewing the situation.

*rather be driving an Alfa*
evermore is offline  
post #193 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-18-2018, 07:05 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by evermore View Post
For those whose popcorn is going stale, just letting you know that I'm working with a lawyer now who is reviewing the situation.

*rather be driving an Alfa*
The best lemon law lawyer (this isnít lemon law as itís too old, but still....) I know is Greg Babbitt in San Diego, I think. I came about two days away from trying a case against him in Napa County Superior Court. Very good lawyer, and very decent guy. AND he works on a % fee of whatever he gets, so no $ out of pocket. If youíre not thrilled with your currrent guy, call Greg and tell him Jonathan Thames in SF sent you.

Jonathan
1974 GTV 2000 (ex-1992 Spider Veloce)
jthames is offline  
post #194 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-18-2018, 07:30 AM
Registered User
 
Tom Frasca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: New York
Posts: 1,753
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by evermore View Post
For those whose popcorn is going stale, just letting you know that I'm working with a lawyer now who is reviewing the situation.

*rather be driving an Alfa*
Curious did you ever reach out to those clowns and try and get some compensation, BTW..Good Luck!!!!

The older I get.. the faster I was....
Tom
Tom Frasca is online now  
post #195 of 264 (permalink) Old 04-18-2018, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthames View Post
The best lemon law lawyer (this isnít lemon law as itís too old, but still....) I know is Greg Babbitt in San Diego, I think. I came about two days away from trying a case against him in Napa County Superior Court. Very good lawyer, and very decent guy. AND he works on a % fee of whatever he gets, so no $ out of pocket. If youíre not thrilled with your currrent guy, call Greg and tell him Jonathan Thames in SF sent you.
Thanks Jonathan, I engaged a lawyer based in nearby Sunnyvale. There is no out of pocket cost either. I just hope this wraps up quickly!
jthames likes this.
evermore is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome