New owner 1974 GTV has no idea what he got himself into - Page 12 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #166 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 03:02 PM
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Mr. Evermore, At the risk of being blunt it's not a weekend cruiser. We don't know it's safe to drive (someone saw the tires are twenty years old, right?) and most likely hasn't been driven much at all in the last couple of decades. I've had a lot of Alfas and I have to disagree that when you fix the rear spring the car will still be somewhat level. It won't. It's bent. If you are honest and sell it for what it's worth you are going to take a bath on the car. If you want to do what BHCC did to you that is of course up to you and your conscience but hopefully you won't. I guess I missed the part about it being reinforced but reinforcing a bent car just ain't right.
You should insist any potential buyer get a PPI or include this link and sell it for what's it's really worth or keep it as a parts car. The moral of this story is DON'T BUY A CAR FROM SOMEONE WHO WON'T LET YOU DO A PPI! Good luck and I sincerely mean that.
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The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
74 GTV restored daily driver
another 74 GTV restored driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
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post #167 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 04:21 PM
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Mr. Evermore, At the risk of being blunt it's not a weekend cruiser. We don't know it's safe to drive (someone saw the tires are twenty years old, right?) and most likely hasn't been driven much at all in the last couple of decades. I've had a lot of Alfas and I have to disagree that when you fix the rear spring the car will still be somewhat level. It won't. It's bent. If you are honest and sell it for what it's worth you are going to take a bath on the car. If you want to do what BHCC did to you that is of course up to you and your conscience but hopefully you won't. I guess I missed the part about it being reinforced but reinforcing a bent car just ain't right.
You should insist any potential buyer get a PPI or include this link and sell it for what's it's really worth or keep it as a parts car. The moral of this story is DON'T BUY A CAR FROM SOMEONE WHO WON'T LET YOU DO A PPI! Good luck and I sincerely mean that.
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post #168 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 01:48 AM
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I feel for Evermore. I hope it works out and we have another Alfisti to wave at when on our drives

Pete
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post #169 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 10:35 AM
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I feel for Evermore. I hope it works out and we have another Alfisti to wave at when on our drives
I would feel for him more if he were making a more honest effort to sell the car, and not trying to saddle someone else with the problems he found at a higher price than he himself paid. Like I said, I actually went to look at this car before I knew about this thread, and I feel he was less than honest in his Craigslist ad or in his verbal statements. That is not cool.

On the other hand, there's now a documented paper trail on the known issues with this car.
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post #170 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 11:56 AM
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Higher price! Holy Moley, he's got some big ones.
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The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
74 GTV restored daily driver
another 74 GTV restored driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #171 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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I would feel for him more if he were making a more honest effort to sell the car, and not trying to saddle someone else with the problems he found at a higher price than he himself paid. Like I said, I actually went to look at this car before I knew about this thread, and I feel he was less than honest in his Craigslist ad or in his verbal statements. That is not cool.

On the other hand, there's now a documented paper trail on the known issues with this car.
- Asking price is never the actual selling price on craigslist. I have bought and sold about 20 vehicles on cl (the last one on Monday actually) and that has held true very single time. I obviously know what the lowest price (and how much of a loss) I am willing to take but I obviously don't divulge that ahead of time. Kind of silly I have to point this out at all.

- Whether you agree with the way the car is represented on cl is a matter of opinion. The point of a listing is start the conversation and I have been thorough in my follow up emails to interested parties. As for saying that my verbal statements were less than honest, that is simply untrue.

- As a person knowledgeable in Alfa Romeos and expecting a problem free euro-spec GTV in the $20k range, you were really only hoping to take advantage of some that did not understand the value of their car.

- I had another conversation with Tom Sahines yesterday who has examined the car in person. He thought that the car is safe to drive and properly priced in the $20k range. Given his experience and knowledge of the actual car, will take that as the definite word on the matter.
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post #172 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 03:02 PM
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Yep, it's my opinion, for whatever it's worth. Most likely you and I just have very different selling philosophies, and I'll leave it at that.

With regards to my personal motivation, though, I can tell you you're wrong. I have bought and sold relatively few cars in my life, but I've never tried to rip anyone off on either side of the situation. Honestly I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I was most definitely not expecting a trailer queen for $29K.
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post #173 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 03:47 PM
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I'm rather astonished you would take anything Tom Sahines (I'm assuming that's BHCC) says as accurate. His fiduciary responsibility isn't to you, it's to himself. He has every reason to say that, if he doesn't you can take him to small claims court. You probably should anyway. Print out this thread, show it to the judge and you stand a good chance of getting a judgement. Whether you ever collect is a different matter. Anyone that sells a car with a broken spring and says it's safe to drive should be president. I wonder if BHCC has a facebook page?
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The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
74 GTV restored daily driver
another 74 GTV restored driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #174 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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I'm rather astonished you would take anything Tom Sahines (I'm assuming that's BHCC) says as accurate. His fiduciary responsibility isn't to you, it's to himself. He has every reason to say that, if he doesn't you can take him to small claims court. You probably should anyway. Print out this thread, show it to the judge and you stand a good chance of getting a judgement. Whether you ever collect is a different matter. Anyone that sells a car with a broken spring and says it's safe to drive should be president. I wonder if BHCC has a facebook page?
oh no, Tom isn't connected with BHCC at all. He's a local Alfa expert and does restorations. He was mentioned to me by multiple people on Alfabb. His assessment was obviously based having replaced the spring.


Now as for legal recourse with BHCC regarding the spring.. I dont have a screenshot of how the car was described but I was sent a Vehicle Inspection Sheet that says the shock absorbers/suspension/struts were "Checked and okay". That is obviously wrong but not sure it's enough of a legal basis to go after them.....
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post #175 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 04:22 PM
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Suspension is pretty important. If not represented accurately it's fraud. I would point that out to them and at a minimum try to negotiate the price. What have you got to lose? I said my piece on their FB page.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
74 GTV restored daily driver
another 74 GTV restored driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider

Last edited by gigem75; 04-05-2018 at 04:25 PM.
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post #176 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 09:31 AM
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I trust Tom, but if asked to make an offer on it, I doubt he'd pony up 20k for it as it sits, better ones to be found without the issues
I agree that if you're truly looking to make a track car, you have the best one already.
pull the back seat put in a bar if you really want to -- I dont think until you get out there its needed
unless you dont trust it n its all smoke, youre gonna lose too much on the deal to make it worth it to find another n start over
take what you have n make it right
Make frame right, add tuneable suspension bits, buy some great tires n wheels for playing and you'll have a great car that you can build on
For me, knowing what I know about alfa engines and how easy they blow bearings, Id tighten up the engine, gearbox n rear end to avoid catastrophic damage while "playing".
but thats me and Ive only learned that by not doing it, several times over.
At that point you still have a stock looking car which will recoup its value
May not be a 40k car, but def not the 15k car you have now

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
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post #177 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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original listing..

the listing is still working so here was the description of the car as given:
https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/...000-c-8058.htm

"1974 Alfa Romeo GTV 2000

This beautiful 1974 Alfa Romeo GTV 2000 seen here is available in silver with black interior. It comes equipped with a manual transmission, wood steering wheel, dual Weber carburetors, solid wheels and includes the spare tire. An extremely clean and presentable example and as well as being an excellent original California car which is mechanically sound. "
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post #178 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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and here is the vehicle inspection report I was provided with... while there are lots of inaccuracies, the fact that the suspension was checked ok while a spring was broken is quite something...


Last edited by evermore; 04-06-2018 at 10:21 AM.
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post #179 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 10:23 AM
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take the bastards to court

The older I get.. the faster I was....
Tom
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post #180 of 261 (permalink) Old 04-06-2018, 11:47 AM
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That car wasn't from California. In Texas the title shows the last owner. Who was on the title when you bought it? Knowing the previous owner would help a lot. Seriously, I'd check on the small claims court in your area (I'm not sure where you are located) but most have limits that if you win would put you about even assuming you can collect. Have you mentioned the broken spring to them and let them know they misrepresented the car?

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
74 GTV restored daily driver
another 74 GTV restored driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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