New owner 1974 GTV has no idea what he got himself into - Page 11 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #151 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 09:40 AM
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oh, so thats yours on cl. looks nice, too bad it didnt work out.

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
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post #152 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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oh, so thats yours on cl. looks nice, too bad it didnt work out.
yeah it looks nice and drives well when you're doing easy driving. I want a car I can push and to get this car to that level would most likely compromise it's present value and looks...
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post #153 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 10:43 AM
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I feel for you, because as I mentioned above I had the same happen to me with a 911... I ended up selling the car with full disclosure, as a parts car, for the price of parts (the rebuilt engine alone was worth my asking price). Lost $10K on the deal, but clear conscience and a valuable lesson...

In hindsight the value of those cars having skyrocketed, I should have kept it, but each time I opened the garage i had a reminder that I got F$%$%d. I hated that. Best gone !
Good luck for the next one, sometimes buying a more $$ one is cheaper in the long run ! (another valuable lesson from my adventures in old cars)
IMO, this is good advice for your situation as well. If you plan on getting another alfa and being part of the community, selling your car as "wonderful" for 28k w/o disclosure of what you now know, imo will come back to haunt you. I'm not saying to give it away, but being less than clear to a new buyer who will find out directly or indirectly what you have chronicled here will put you in the same boat as the guys at BHCC. I'll let other chime in on this and dont mean to assume, just my .02 worth.

CL is a local forum and all the players are involved.
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post #154 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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IMO, this is good advice for your situation as well. If you plan on getting another alfa and being part of the community, selling your car as "wonderful" for 28k w/o disclosure of what you now know, imo will come back to haunt you. I'm not saying to give it away, but being less than clear to a new buyer who will find out directly or indirectly what you have chronicled here will put you in the same boat as the guys at BHCC. I'll let other chime in on this and dont mean to assume, just my .02 worth.

CL is a local forum and all the players are involved.
yeah a bit of marketing is required though to get people to look at the car. The one person that I have shown the car to I walked through pretty much all I know about the car including the probable accidents, repairs, and present condition. It ends up being quite a laundry list..
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post #155 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 02:16 PM
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yeah a bit of marketing is required though to get people to look at the car. The one person that I have shown the car to I walked through pretty much all I know about the car including the probable accidents, repairs, and present condition. It ends up being quite a laundry list..
Did you buy it through Ebay?? you could go after them or ay least agitate, slam them on feedback and maybe post in the Ebay community bulletin board about this horrendous experience. And as the others, I feel for you as well...

The older I get.. the faster I was....
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post #156 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 07:00 PM
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Tom.... the car was from BHCC. (not ebay)

It was mentioned a few times in the thread.

Evermore.... really sorry to hear the outcome..... but it was on the cards just from the photos you posted......

Hope you sell it to someone that can do something with it.... (being optimistic).

regards
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post #157 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 10:18 PM
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Tom.... the car was from BHCC. (not ebay)

It was mentioned a few times in the thread.

Evermore.... really sorry to hear the outcome..... but it was on the cards just from the photos you posted......

Hope you sell it to someone that can do something with it.... (being optimistic).

regards
Mark
I see, though I saw this car on Ebay....

The older I get.. the faster I was....
Tom
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post #158 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 11:23 PM
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yeah a bit of marketing is required though to get people to look at the car. The one person that I have shown the car to I walked through pretty much all I know about the car including the probable accidents, repairs, and present condition. It ends up being quite a laundry list..
So that would be me who looked at the car yesterday. Saw it on CL and just found this thread on the BB. Wish I had known the details here, because I would not have spent the time to go look at it.

I did not test drive the car. Spent a while looking underneath it, and even for an amateur like me some of the issues mentioned in this thread were obvious. Just too much body & suspension weirdness for me to think about buying it.

After reading this thread I really feel like I dodged a bullet. Sorry to be blunt here, but I do not feel like the car was represented completely honestly on CL or in person, especially given the poor compression numbers you have and all the issues you know about. I realize you've got to do some marketing when you sell a car, but as a potential buyer I'm not feeling very good right now about how you positioned the car for sale.

I'm not angry or anything, but the thought of someone buying this car without knowing all the details makes me feel kind of queasy.

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Originally Posted by pinshaw View Post
IMO, this is good advice for your situation as well. If you plan on getting another alfa and being part of the community, selling your car as "wonderful" for 28k w/o disclosure of what you now know, imo will come back to haunt you. I'm not saying to give it away, but being less than clear to a new buyer who will find out directly or indirectly what you have chronicled here will put you in the same boat as the guys at BHCC. I'll let other chime in on this and dont mean to assume, just my .02 worth.
Yes indeedy. My advice would be to point any potential buyer to this thread and let them make an eyes-open decision. I realize that probably means you're going to take a bath on the car, but sometimes that's the price of being an honest man. Just my take.
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post #159 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 08:26 AM
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So that would be me who looked at the car yesterday. Saw it on CL and just found this thread on the BB. Wish I had known the details here, because I would not have spent the time to go look at it.



I did not test drive the car. Spent a while looking underneath it, and even for an amateur like me some of the issues mentioned in this thread were obvious. Just too much body & suspension weirdness for me to think about buying it.



After reading this thread I really feel like I dodged a bullet. Sorry to be blunt here, but I do not feel like the car was represented completely honestly on CL or in person, especially given the poor compression numbers you have and all the issues you know about. I realize you've got to do some marketing when you sell a car, but as a potential buyer I'm not feeling very good right now about how you positioned the car for sale.



I'm not angry or anything, but the thought of someone buying this car without knowing all the details makes me feel kind of queasy.







Yes indeedy. My advice would be to point any potential buyer to this thread and let them make an eyes-open decision. I realize that probably means you're going to take a bath on the car, but sometimes that's the price of being an honest man. Just my take.


I have been following this post from the beginning and BHCC flips lots of junk cars. I feel really bad for you that you end up with lot of hidden problems. I am on my third Alfa and feel that I am a smart car guy. The 84 spider I purchased in 2014 in 102 deg. Heat. I was purchasing with emotion. Was just to hot to notice the issues. It looked great and ran good. Purchase price of $6k and another 4k later I have a great care. I can have a spirited drive in the hills or take my wife on a club ride. My car is not worth much. In fact it is not worth $10k No one likes or appreciates S3. That does not matter because I think it is a great looking car. In the end that is all that matters. When it came to replacing the engine it was a must other wise the car was worthless. My drive door and hood have some gap issues. Let me tell you I love my car! So sorry it took me so long to make my point. Please do not sick your problems with another person. In my opinion you have three choices. 1. Disclaimer and take a loss. 2. Buy a second car with issues and make one great car. 3. Straighten the frame and deal with the issue that come up with after the frame is straighten.

Alfa’s brand brings pure joy to there owner. What is a few $k or a lot of $k when it comes to an Alfa.

PS
In the end the car will be worth $60k in the current market.

That is my two cent of advice.


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post #160 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 08:27 AM
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Oh yea here is a picture of my 84 after a Sunday drive.


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post #161 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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I see, though I saw this car on Ebay....
Tom, you are correct as well, BHCC had the car advertised on eBay too.
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post #162 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 08:40 AM
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I kind of agree. You can loose 10k and the car or spend 10k and keep the car
Id pull the entire suspension & driveline out, possibly pull the doors as well and pull the frame and see where you stand
Id assume the bondo fender is junk and needs to be cut off and / or reworked depending on whats in there
Have the engine, gear box n dif gone thru n freshened
Then id get a new suspension assembled, throw on some fresh rims n tires n see where you're at
At least then you'd something to play with
The car isnt that bad short of the fender n frame, rest is 40 year old car stuff that just needs to be done
can put it off n do one piece at a time or just bite the bullet n make it your own
In the end you'll have a cool euro GTV

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post #163 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
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Clarification on the condition of the car

Hmm, I think there is some confusion on the state of the car (I have obviously focused on the issue as I was trying to address them according to my goals).

Frame: As mentioned, the frame was impacted during whatever accident the car was in. However it was repaired. Instead of trying to twist back the portion holding the engine mount and the driver side upper control arm, they opted to reinforce it instead. THAT is why the body shop was reluctant to pull the frame as the consequences would be unpredictable. In the shape it is in, the car is safe to drive. Both the mechanics at Continental Motors and at Freeman Frame were clear about this.

Engine: The engine runs smoothly now that the valves were adjusted. I have don't have updated compression numbers but it is night and day when actually driving it. There are no leaks nor any smoke. It starts up easily and with the newly installed fan shroud helping with proper cooling, this is not a problem area anymore.

Transmission and clutch: Except for engaging second gear, it is fine. I did learn that if I shift at 2k rpm from 1st to 2nd, it will engage smoothly and no fancy footwork is needed.

Interior: small bits and pieces are missing or broken (passenger door handle, ceiling light covers, and the speedometer is not working). These are cheap and easy fixes. The seats are in great condition, the dash is not cracked or sun damaged so the interior looks great.

Rust: Definitely in the trunk lid sill and any exposed metal underneath. Structurally though, the jack points and rocker panels are ok. Whatever rust there is, I do not think it will propagate any further given the climate here.

Steering, alignment, and suspension: Steering is a bit vague on center and not on par with modern cars. If I kept the car, i would want to replace all the bushings and tie rods to make it more enjoyable but it's ok for regular driving. The car pulls a tiny bit to the left. Freeman Frame said that this could easily be compensated for (remember how the left side front wheel sits a little too far forward) but it's simply not big enough of an issue to address. The broken rear spring will have to be replaced but it still performs its duty. Otherwise, the other suspensions (and steering) components are intact but old. Hence my original plan to just replace everything. If I make that type of investment though, I would want to start with a frame that does not have this history and repairs which is how we are at the present point.

There is absolutely no reason to go for some extreme solution such as parting out the car. This is not a concourse car but it's also not a junker. Especially with the recent fixes (and addressing a couple more items like the spring), it can be an enjoyable weekend car for years to come. Unfortunately, I want a vehicle I can flog around Skyline Blvd and take to the track and this is not that the car that can be turned into that type of vehicle. This is a weekend cruiser, not a potential racer.
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post #164 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 11:39 AM
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I think in the long run it is often more advantageous to buy a car that has been restored to a decent level, while the upfront cost may be a bitter pill to swallow, you generally get more bang for the buck buying this way. It doesn't take long to easily surpass the cost of a restored car when you start off with a project that nickles and dimes you to the point which can easily have you thousands of dollars higher than the cost of a restored car. Just my thoughts.
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post #165 of 259 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 01:44 PM
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I personally don't see any better opportunity to make a car to flog around in than with one that has had previous issues. this gives you the opportunity to replace broken parts with stronger race bits and beef everything up while your at it. Why start out with a perfect example? especially when it comes to steering and suspension stuff.

I think of this as an opportunity!
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