Engine removal - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-23-2017, 11:53 AM
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Gary,

Great information. Too cold in Oklahoma for no heater and hoses.

You wouldn't happen to have done this for a 101 Spider, as well, would you?

Thanks,

Ray

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-23-2017, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
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I have spent a few days working a couple of hours every time, and i can tell you that I am glad I will be removing the engine.

The engine and everything under there is filthy and it was worth removing just for the clean. For instance i though the face of the crank pulley was flat where in fact it was filled with gunk mixed with dirt, I put in screw driver and it went in about 2" in. Some of the bolts/nuts where so covered in this stuff that I didn't know they where there. Clearly the engine was never cleaned in its life. Castle nuts on the ball joints had to be cleaned with brake cleaner just to be able to see the cotter pins. No wonder I couldn't time the engine when I replaced the distributor. Link

I had to tear the intake rubber mounts, as they were frozen to the carbs. The 6 bolts between the exhaust manifold and the rest of the exhaust were the worse to reach. Upon removing the exhaust manifold from the head, i noticed that I had 7 nuts and one bolt Shouldn't all be studs fixed to head and nuts on the other side ?

The only things left should be under the car. Speedo Cable. earth strap, slave cylinder, gearbox mount, and the worse part is to separate the prop shaft from the gearbox (rubber doughnut). The bolts are seized and there is no room for a ratchet bit to get around the bolt/nut, they must be undone with a open ended spanner which can round the head. I've been socking them with WD40 and Wurth anti rust every time I visit.

One question.
I have two engine hoist brackets, one attached to the engine and a spare. Should I install these at each end of the engine and use an engine leveler, or just use one and move it on the second row towards the front of car ? I will be getting out engine with gearbox.

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-23-2017, 01:38 PM
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-23-2017, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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I've read great things about PB Blaster. Pity we don't have it in our country.

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-23-2017, 03:24 PM
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I have two engine hoist brackets, one attached to the engine and a spare. Should I install these at each end of the engine and use an engine leveler, or just use one and move it on the second row towards the front of car ? I will be getting out engine with gearbox.
Just use one and move it on the second row towards the front of car. As long as you are removing the engine & trans as a unit, pulling from the second pair of head studs will position the engine & trans at just about the right angle. The Alfa engine & trans are light enough to allow you to manually tip them up/down slightly to maneuver around obstacles.

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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-23-2017, 04:33 PM
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One issue: In the spiders (mine is a 67 Duetto) there is little vertical room in the engine bay. I always had trouble with the engine+trans unit getting the end of the tx out. The problem was the stub of the gearshift lever "just" hitting the body's bell housing. I always had to twist the engine unit to get it out.

After too many removals, I finally decided to just pull the stub. While you're removing the interior parts of the shift lever, just unbolt the four 10 mm nuts on the side of the tx tower and pull the pivot/vent housings. You don't actually need to remove the lever, just let is slide down a bit; it only needs ˝ inch or so to clear the body.

BTW - remember to unbolt the ground strap from the top of the clutch bell housing to the upper body. You can pull the engine without doing this, but it does make a mess of things.

That and a $99 HF engine hoist is all it takes to pull the whole thing.

Remember to get the drive shaft u-joints aligned properly on reassembly. Inspect (and almost always replace the rubber donut - it cracks pretty easily. I replaced mine with a modern (german) one now available from the usual suspects (needs proper spacers). Much stronger.

Robert
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-24-2017, 06:12 PM
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Gary,

Great information. Too cold in Oklahoma for no heater and hoses.

You wouldn't happen to have done this for a 101 Spider, as well, would you?

Thanks,

Ray
No, when I had my first Alfa, a 1959 Giulietta Spider, it was 1966 and I was still young enough to have a memory.

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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-24-2017, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 60sRacer View Post
One issue: In the spiders (mine is a 67 Duetto) there is little vertical room in the engine bay. I always had trouble with the engine+trans unit getting the end of the tx out. The problem was the stub of the gearshift lever "just" hitting the body's bell housing. I always had to twist the engine unit to get it out.
Robert
When pulling the engine and tranny together, we get real silly. The back end of the car goes up as high as possible on jack stands, while the front wheels come off and we drop the nose almost to the ground. That extreme angle makes it easier to get everything in or out in one piece.

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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alfajay View Post
Just use one and move it on the second row towards the front of car. As long as you are removing the engine & trans as a unit, pulling from the second pair of head studs will position the engine & trans at just about the right angle. The Alfa engine & trans are light enough to allow you to manually tip them up/down slightly to maneuver around obstacles.
Thanks Jay

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When pulling the engine and tranny together, we get real silly. The back end of the car goes up as high as possible on jack stands, while the front wheels come off and we drop the nose almost to the ground. That extreme angle makes it easier to get everything in or out in one piece.
I have a set of 6 Tons Jack stands which I can use to lift the back end. They go up to around 61cm. If that won't be enough I can always deflate the front tyres.

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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60sRacer View Post
After too many removals, I finally decided to just pull the stub. While you're removing the interior parts of the shift lever, just unbolt the four 10 mm nuts on the side of the tx tower and pull the pivot/vent housings. You don't actually need to remove the lever, just let is slide down a bit; it only needs ˝ inch or so to clear the body.
I should explore this option too


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BTW - remember to unbolt the ground strap from the top of the clutch bell housing to the upper body
It is on the "To Do List"

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Originally Posted by 60sRacer View Post
Remember to get the drive shaft u-joints aligned properly on reassembly. Inspect (and almost always replace the rubber donut - it cracks pretty easily. I replaced mine with a modern (german) one now available from the usual suspects (needs proper spacers). Much stronger.
I have marked the drive shaft with "Tippex" and will replace the rubber doughnut with a new one. I am buying from my parts from Classic Alfa.


Thank you for the tips Robert

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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary Williams View Post
When pulling the engine and tranny together, we get real silly. The back end of the car goes up as high as possible on jack stands, while the front wheels come off and we drop the nose almost to the ground. That extreme angle makes it easier to get everything in or out in one piece.
Agree that engine/trans removal is easier with the car tipped that way. BUT:

- If you are using a hoist fixed to your garage ceiling (instead of a "cherry picker"), you aren't going to be able to roll the car backward as the engine comes out with the back end is up on jackstands.

- And if you are using a "cherry picker", it's tough to get the legs under the front of the car if it's sitting that low.

I have found that the engine/trans will come out with the car level if the gear lever stub is removed. Just doing that makes a big difference.

When you remove the gear lever stub, be sure to cover the gearshift hole to keep crud from falling in as the trans scrapes along the underside of the tunnel. I just use heavy plastic sheet secured with a rubber band.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L

Last edited by Alfajay; 09-25-2017 at 07:11 AM.
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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 07:25 AM Thread Starter
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- And if you are using a "cherry picker", it's tough to get the legs under the front of the car if it's sitting that low.
Good point. Will be using a engine hoist and it does have its leg spread wide open which will need to dig under the car.


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Originally Posted by Alfajay View Post
I have found that the engine/trans will come out with the car level if the gear lever stub is removed. Just doing that makes a big difference.

When you remove the gear lever stub, be sure to cover the gearshift hole to keep crud from falling in as the trans scrapes along the underside of the tunnel. I just use heavy plastic sheet secured with a rubber band.
When removing the gear lever stub, will there be parts falling from inside the trans ?

The trans scrapes along the underside . Will I end up with a scratched underside ? I read a lot of threads about engine/gearbox removal and nowhere did I read that the underside will be scratched..

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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Alfajay View Post
Agree that engine/trans removal is easier with the car tipped that way. BUT:

- If you are using a hoist fixed to your garage ceiling (instead of a "cherry picker"), you aren't going to be able to roll the car backward as the engine comes out with the back end is up on jackstands.

- And if you are using a "cherry picker", it's tough to get the legs under the front of the car if it's sitting that low.
Good point, Jay. It's been a decade since I took out the tranny and engine together and I don't remember how we got around the hoist leg issue. On the other hand, when pulling the engine alone, I park each front wheel on a couple pieces of 2x4, to raise the car 3 inches (Not modern math; modern 2x4s). Then the hoist easily slides under, despite the car's normally low stance.

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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 09:09 AM
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\When removing the gear lever stub, will there be parts falling from inside the trans ?
Yes, you do need to disassemble it carefully. There are shims on either side of the gear lever pivot - you don't want those falling down into the gearbox. And you need to keep track of which shims were on the left, which were on the right.

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The trans scrapes along the underside . Will I end up with a scratched underside ? I read a lot of threads about engine/gearbox removal and nowhere did I read that the underside will be scratched..
Gee, sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I suppose if you have a team of helpers, you might be able to avoid any drivetrain to body contact. And of course, put pads/rags/cardboard over areas you don't want scratched. But yea, the paint is fragile, the engine/trans is heavy, and you have to shoehorn it out - a recipe for some scratching.

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when pulling the engine alone, I park each front wheel on a couple pieces of 2x4, to raise the car 3 inches .... Then the hoist easily slides under, despite the car's normally low stance.
OK. This depends a bit on the design of the hoist that you are using. When I help my friend pull his engine (he uses a hoist on wheels, while I use a chainfall fixed to the ceiling), the legs on his hoist are exactly the width of the Alfa's front track. In other words, we have to remove the car's front wheels and put the front on stands to allow the hoist legs to pass underneath. A hoist with narrower leg spacing would make the operation simpler.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L

Last edited by Alfajay; 09-25-2017 at 09:14 AM.
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 09:44 AM
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I had no idea leg width varied so much on rolling hoists. I borrow a chunky hoist from a neighbor who used to play with Chevy V8s. It works great, except when I load it into my tractor's bucket to take it back and don't lash it down properly. Fortunately, it bashed the tractor's hood and not the Alfa. Oh well, I guess old Ford tractors are supposed to look like they've been used.

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