'69 GT 1300 Junior not getting any fuel after sitting for 2 years - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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'69 GT 1300 Junior not getting any fuel after sitting for 2 years

I've had my '69 Junior sitting in storage for the last couple of years and would like to get her running again.

I've soaked the carbs for a few days in carb cleaner, despite them not being gunked up at all (bone dry though). The engine turns over smoothly and when spraying a bit of brake cleaner in the Webers, she wants to fire right up.

But: no fuel. I'm not a complete dolt (I feel the need to mention this since I did leave a 105 GT sit for a couple of years after all) and normally would work my way from the tank to the front and probably find some obvious issue.

At this time however the car is parked in tight, so I figured I'd check here to see if there are any usual suspects regarding 105 fuel delivery. Even removing fuel lines from the pump and regulator looks like it'll take some acrobatics.

Here's what I know: fuel in the tank, Fispa fuel regulator bowl is bone dry.

What I've tried: cranked her over for a couple of minutes, I'd think in this time I should at least see a bit of fuel in the regulator? I'm hoping someone will tell me how horribly inefficient the mechanical pump is at cranking rpm and to just keep trying.

While I'm at it, my regulator looks like a Fispa FRB 11, anyone know if the fuel pump is still an original OEM unit? The new replacement pumps looks different. Are there rebuild kits available for mine?





And a few pics of the car before I stored it:




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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 11:36 AM
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I would think you need to get it un-tight to do any serious work. The regulator sounds original type or close to it. My first guess is the pump is dried/stuck/worn out and won't pull any fuel. If you're not seeing any in the filter bowl it's not getting sucked from the tank. Filter screen in tank could be gummed up too.
You can try running some fuel down the hose from the carbs, see if that softens up the pump innards and creates suction. I have put air pressure in the fuel tank inlet, listened at the other end for fuel to come out, then hook up. Not recommended without someone to help so you don't end up with gas all over..

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 01:07 PM
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Agree 100% with what Andrew says, I've always pressurised the tank, usually with a small compressor, I take a length of hose, roll up a garbage bag & wrap it around the hose to make a big plastic seal, put the hose into the tank & hold the bag-seal against the neck & pressurise the tank with the compressor. (honestly compels me to mention that I've blown into the pipe on more than one occasion when I didn't have a compressor near me....don't breathe back !!)

Once the fuel fills the glass bowl, it'll usually start - on the assumption that all the other stuff has been checked & found to be good working order.

You've cranked it long enough to have oil pressure to all the bearings.......

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 02:10 PM
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Yes, absolutely what the previous posts have said.

I've encountered the same problem with a 105 GT I had and ended up spending way too much time chasing down other ghost problems when in fact it just wasn't priming and getting fuel through the lines.

I've successfully used the method of fitting a spray paint can cap of the right size to the fuel filler and drilling a hole in top to insert an air pressure nozzle.

Good luck.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, it seems this issue isn't that uncommon then. I've sprayed some fuel into the carb to regulator hose using a syringe, making sure I squirted enough to reach the fuel pump. I'll let that sit for a day or so and give it a shot. If that doesn't work, I know I'll be pushing it onto my car trailer rather than driving it on.

@AlfistiSA: would you happen to have any pictures of your '69 Junior engine bay? Mine has been tinkered with (added relays, rerouted wiring, etc) and I would like to bring it back to original. These '69 Juniors seem to have a somewhat unique engine compartment layout, because of the floor mounted pedals with hydraulic clutch I suppose.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 06:38 PM
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Furrikain,
I'm not anywhere near as well versed as some of the above, but (!)...... I do have some great engine compartment photos available, along with some pics of the fuel pump/filter areas ready to go. I can't swear it's perfect, but has been recently restored to its original spec. (In Italy, about 5 years ago, even my original owners manual is in Italian!!) If you pm me your email, I'll send you what ever you need.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 07:33 PM
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I had exactly this problem recently. Tons of cranking, no fuel to carbs.
I primed the pump itself directly thru the line leading down to it from the regulator. This way I knew fuel reached it, with no waiting. No harm priming/filling the regulator/filter bowl too.
I also drew fuel manually thru the supply pipe from the tank to pre-fill it too. I used some see-thru plastic tubing on the end of the supply pipe so I could see the fuel arrive and stop sucking before I got a mouthful.
Sounds dodgy, but you wont breath any more fumes in than you would standing next to your car filling your tank at the servo.
Reconnect, crank, vroom, smile.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 03:55 AM
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I had a similar problem a few years ago - checked the pump etc etc and all looked OK. In the end it was one of the fuel hoses that had collapsed internally - it looked fine from outside.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 05:57 AM
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And the opposite can be true of fuel hoses too; so old and cracked they're leaking air. In two years I wouldn't expect that, but it's possible.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 07:57 AM
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One other thing worth mentioning: If the fuel in your tank is 2 years old, it isn't much good any more. Gasoline absorbs water and it degrades over time. If you can get the fuel system working, the engine might start with that old fuel. But I predict that it won't run very well.

Quote:
I'm hoping someone will tell me how horribly inefficient the mechanical pump is at cranking rpm and to just keep trying.
Yes, the mechanical fuel pump is inefficient at cranking speeds. But no, you don't want to just keep trying - pretty much all of the oil has drained off the crankshaft bearings after two years. And the oil pump is as inefficient as the fuel pump. So repeated cranking isn't doing your bearings any favors. Or your starter.

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 11:25 AM
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Furrikain, My '69 GT Junior is a South African assembled RHD CKD car with standing pedals and a cable clutch.....

I can take pictures of the engine bay, but the SA assembled cars are not exactly the same as the Arese assembled cars

Ciao
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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@AlfistiSA: No need to take any pictures you don't already have on your hard drive, more trouble than it's worth I bet since you say SA cars are somewhat different.


I'll start another thread regarding correct layout if and when I actually get to sorting the engine compartment. Tomorrow I'll probably have time to see if I can pressurize the fuel tank and get the car running.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 05:43 AM Thread Starter
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Well, success. Somewhat. Pressurizing the tank was the way to go. All it took was a bicycle pump, a plastic bag to form a seal and between 5 to 10 pumps. Opening the Webers, soaking them in carb cleaner, priming the pump and filling the regulator from the carb side, none of it necessary (but I'm sure it didn't hurt).

Siphoned the tank, filled it with fresh gas and let the car idle for 15 minutes, by the last 5 minutes it was running relatively smooth, idle still a bit high at 1250rpm or so.

But, as these things go, I've traded one problem for another: at the end of my 15 minute idle, I heard a small trickle, turns out the radiator cap was leaking some water, I'd say about half a glass worth, no jets of steam or other drama. Water temp sat around 60 to 70C (according to the in dash gauge, which is probably wildly inaccurate...) Radiator looks to be in good condition. Should I just start by bleeding the system, ensuring no air pockets have developed or is it likely the water pump or thermostat have seized from sitting?

EDIT: Am I correct that this manifold uses the screw in tstat? I know there's an early drop in variant, but that was before '69 I believe?


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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 04:32 PM
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Yep, that looks like the screw-in item, which was the 'early' type. Drop-in came later, with the 1750s I believe.
The drop-ins are easy to identify coz the housing they drop into is easily visible afrom above.

Last edited by Ranz; 09-17-2016 at 04:35 PM.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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@Ranz: I know it isn't the later drop in one, but there is an early drop-in as well that preceded the screw in type, as seen on the 101s, I believe some 105s had the same tstat as the 101, but I'm guessing those would have been phased out by '69.

I could just check of course, but there's a good chance the hose will bite the dust during removal and I don't want to wait for parts.
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