Synthetic transmission oil ? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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Synthetic transmission oil ?

Well after pulling the transmission and installing new bearings and bushings I still can hear a whine coming from gear box. the noise goes away totally when clutch peddle is activated. The mechanic said all Alfa transmission have a whine to them, my dad has a Giulia Super and I dont hear the transmission at all. I was wondering if the syncro rings in my transmission can handle a synthetic tranny oil? As this my help reduce the noise...
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 07:42 AM
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Did you replace the rubber shift boot(s)? If those aren't in good condition you get a LOT of noise from the gearbox, even if it's in good shape.

Redline 75W90NS is synthetic and appropriate for your GTV. While it reportedly works very well for shifting, I doubt it's going to make a lick of difference with regards to noise, though. If you try it make sure you get the stuff with the NS in the name.

Tom

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 07:43 AM
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Hi,

synthetic transmission oil has no influence on such NVH issues, only increased viscosity may help.

The root cause of whining is usually gear wear.

BTW synthetic oil will definitely ruin your synchro rings as the contained sulphur and phosphor destroy the coating.

Saluti
Ribolla
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 09:45 AM
But Mad North-Northwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ribolla View Post
BTW synthetic oil will definitely ruin your synchro rings as the contained sulphur and phosphor destroy the coating.
Agh...no...

Alfa transmissions built after 19-sixty-whatever are designed for EP gear oils. Alfa spec'd GL5 gear oil, and the sulfur EP compounds in it are fine for later Alfa transmissions.

Sulfur, phosphorus, and EP additives have NOTHING to do with whether the base oil is synthetic or not.

Tom

1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
1974 GTV
1991 Spider
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 10:44 AM
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"the noise goes away totally when clutch peddle is activated" If the car is in neutral with the clutch in then none of the trnsmsm parts are moving, then I would find it difficult to blame the transmission or synthetic oil. And I agree(cuz I've read mountains of posts on the synthetic oil issue)Synthetic is just fine. Its probably your throw out bearing that is making the noise.

Last edited by dlbehrns; 05-26-2015 at 10:46 AM.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 01:11 PM
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But when you put your foot on the clutch pedal the throw out bearing is loaded up and spins at engine speed. The pilot bushing will also be spinning relative to input shaft.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa-romeo-club-canada-toronto-chapter/149533-alfa-parts-garage-sale.html
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 04:19 PM
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sounds to me like a throw out bearing- Theory <I think> the bearing spins in a no load state when the clutch pedal is released creating a whine due to a free spinning bearing. Pushing the clutch pedal puts the bearing into a load condition which then quiets the bearing due to the load.

As with all things forum, happy to be corrected by those with greater knowledge
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 05:46 PM
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Depends if the throw out is in constant contact even when no pressure is on pedal, or there is free play IE clearance between pressure plate fingers and throw out bearing. I assume hydraulic clutch is in constant contact and mechanical clutch linkage would have free play.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa-romeo-club-canada-toronto-chapter/149533-alfa-parts-garage-sale.html
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 05:59 PM
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Generally....

Spring-type pressure plates (1600, and earlier) require some clearance between the TO bearing and the pressure plate fingers. Diaphragm types (1750 and later) have the TO bearing in constant contact with the multiple thin fingers of the diaphragm. I can't tell from the original post what type of clutch/TO the writer has. Leaving a spring-type TO in constant contact with the pressure plate without clearance might well lead to a whining when the box is in neutral and the car is stopped with minimum engine noise.

My current box in my 2000 (a modified 2600 box) has some whine, due to a worn input shaft gear. The input shafts for these boxes are hard to get, so we used the best we had. In neutral, with the foot off the clutch pedal, the input shaft will be turning, along with the first gear on the lay-shaft. Worn teeth will be heard as whining.

I have read on the BB that the Redline NS is great for all Alfa transmissions. I still have a couple of gallons of Dentax and plan to use it in my 2000 (1959) trans until it's used up, then perhaps try the NS.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

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Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

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Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
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1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

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1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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The guy who rebuilt the tranny did say there was wear on the input shaft gear.... i have disconnected the linkage to the clutch fork and it still whines... I have installed new clutch kit so throw out bearing is brand new.... It must be the wear on the input shaft gear. I have installed all new boots on top of tranny... guess Iam gonna have to live with it... as a new rebuilt tranny is not in the budget this year, plus there hard to come by. thanks to all for your input..
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 07:43 PM
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Back to my point: fluid in and of itself is not going to cause a transmission that is not turning to whine.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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When the clutch peddle is activated and car is in neutral the sound disappears as the transmission is disengaged and is not turning. Release the clutch peddle and its back and the whine increase with engine RPMs ... Wouldnt the throw out bearing make a noise only when clutch peddle is pushed.?
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-27-2015, 09:41 AM
Richard Jemison
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Noise

Whine is typically gear mesh issue. Roaring noise bearing issue.

I suggest you order 2 quarts of Redline 75-140 NS and fill trans with that.
NOTE Redline 75-90 NS is best for typical Alfa use. The 75-140 NS is more viscous and should quieten gear to gear interface noises. ONLY NS, No other gear oil.

However the only other oil I would consider would be a GL3 or GL4 90-140 wt gear lube. These oils will likely cause syncro issues due to being too slipery/thick for proper baulk ring syncro design.

Richard Jemison
RJR Racing

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-28-2015, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Richard ...Iam gonna give that a try Ill let you know how it works...Arthur
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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Well I never got a chance to try that transmission oil . I insured car and drove it three blocks when I went to shift to four gear the friggin tranny locked up solid.. The rear tires locked up and I skidded around till I got her on the shoulder of the road... I think that the shift forks must have been installed wrong and it pulled two gears at same time... iam so disappointed as this is the third time I've had that tranny apart...I'am on suicide watch ....lol
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