AFrench Blue '69 GTV Restoration - Page 91 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1351 of 1570 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 06:45 AM
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the problem are the materials, OE speeking there was a rubber hose that connected to reservoire to the hardline, today I havent been able to find a hose that can handle brake fluid, Ive even try nylon hoses without succes, looking a video of Vintage Customs (aka akitaman) he speeks about a rubber hose, Continental brand, blue colored wich is perfect for this application, couldnt find that hose in EU. Continental doesnt import it to EU. Hence my question
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post #1352 of 1570 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 07:08 AM
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Brake Fluid that doesn't affect paint?

Not that it addresses the underlying problem (leaking brake / clutch lines) - however, I just read, with great interest, about a new brake fluid offered by CA. It's called BR092 SILICONE BRAKE FLUID.

CA's description states:

"Developed for the US Military, silicone brake fluid (DOT 5) is the most advanced brake and clutch fluid ever devised. Never needs replacing, non hygroscopic, doesn't damage paintwork and boiling point of 260 degrees C (500 deg F). Compatible with the seals and hoses used by all manufacturers. Because it absorbs virtually no moisture it retains the high boiling point for life and can be left in a braking system indefinitely. Non-toxic with no known harmful effects too."

It's ridiculously expensive - but, maybe...
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post #1353 of 1570 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 07:42 AM
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I used to use DOT5 fluid on race bikes.
They prob use it in some race card.

About OTT on road going vehicles I would say, and very expensive too. Compatibility issues with other fluids also.

motorsport stockists should have rubber feed hose for brake reservoirs - try merlinmotorsport.co.uk.

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post #1354 of 1570 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 05:23 PM
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Silicone, or DOT5 brake fluid is something I and many other enthusiasts have used for many years. As I understand it, additives in DOT5 fluid are not compatible with other brake fluids. If you’re starting with a clean system, there should be no problem using DOT5 brake fluid in this application. Also, in my experience, it has had no adverse effect if it contacts paint.

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post #1355 of 1570 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 05:38 PM
I've used DOT 5 on a '69 GTV with dual boosters. Since everything was new or rebuilt including all the brake lines, boosters BMC and calipers I felt it was safe. It was but with as hard as it is to bleed these brakes I found I went through a whole lot of brake fluid. It's $$$$

I used it primarily because it doesn't attack the paint. But I left a DOT5 soaked rag on a painted fender and found out otherwise. It sat there for a while (maybe months) but it did ruin the paint. That's the last time I used it...

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post #1356 of 1570 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 09:59 PM
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Made a quick search for the particular DOT5 fluid (although my car is a long long way from that stage). Seems to be only offered in Europe while the description specifically says "Imported from the USA" and "Specified by Harley Davidson". Only European classic car parts shop and amazon europe offfers it.
So maybe if you find the source or what brand HD actually specifies you might get it for less. Seems to be double+ the price of other DOT5 fluids.
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post #1357 of 1570 (permalink) Old 11-16-2017, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback guys. The rubber needs to be EPDM and preferably fabric reinforced or fabric wrapped. I'm sure there are bunch of cars of this era that have used similar construction for their reservoir feed line connections.....such as VW's perhaps.


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1971 1750 GTV 105.48 (sold), 1972 1300GTJunior (sold)
1969 1750 GTV 105.5 , 1972 Montreal
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post #1358 of 1570 (permalink) Old 11-16-2017, 08:38 PM
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A friend is using this DOT '5.1' with the caveat that he replaced all hoses to silicon... I'm sticking to DOT 4 personally though...

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post #1359 of 1570 (permalink) Old 11-16-2017, 09:00 PM
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It's not just the hoses. The really important parts are the seals in the MC and the caliper pistons, and in the boosters if you have them. I once put a silicon fluid in a completely refurbished brake system. In just three days the seals had hardened and were useless. I found out when I tried to back out of the garage and crashed thru the boxwood hedges, with no brakes at all. All the seals on an Alfa are rubber, and not at all compatible with silicon brake fluid.

However, its my understanding that DOT 5.1 fluids are compatible with "all brake components", whereas DOT 5 fluids are labeled as "containing silicon and NOT compatible with some brake materials." In addition, I think most new brake component seals, including OH elements for Alfas, are compatible with all brake fluids now.

You need to read the small print on the labels very carefully. At least in the US, they must be properly labeled. AFAIK, there have been several serious accidents that resulted from this problem.

Robert
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post #1360 of 1570 (permalink) Old 12-04-2017, 08:19 AM
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Many many thanks! I am glad you enjoy your car now!
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post #1361 of 1570 (permalink) Old 12-05-2017, 02:33 PM
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Dot 5 vs 5.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by 60sRacer View Post

...However, its my understanding that DOT 5.1 fluids are compatible with "all brake components", whereas DOT 5 fluids are labeled as "containing silicon and NOT compatible with some brake materials." In addition, I think most new brake component seals, including OH elements for Alfas, are compatible with all brake fluids now...

Robert
Robert makes a good point. While I've had better luck with DOT 5 Silicon fluid and seals myself I can't stress enough that 5.1 and 5 are completely different beasts. 5.1 is more like DOT 4 and is not silicon based. And it will remove your paint too. See the link below for more details.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_5.1
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post #1362 of 1570 (permalink) Old 12-05-2017, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donatella View Post
Many many thanks! I am glad you enjoy your car now!
Well until the car is on the road...my enjoyment at this point is in seeing it coming together ....one piece at a time.
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1971 1750 GTV 105.48 (sold), 1972 1300GTJunior (sold)
1969 1750 GTV 105.5 , 1972 Montreal
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post #1363 of 1570 (permalink) Old 12-05-2017, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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All good advice and tips on the brake fluid gents. I'll be using ATE Typ 200 to DOT4...probably the closest to the OE fluid.

On the reassembly side, I've been slowly working out the hiccups with the wiring harness and accessories. Some of the issues that I sorted out so far:

- turn signals not blinking - traced this out to a crappy flasher unit (the one mounted above the fuse box). This was a new Lucas unit but quality is poor - internal wire was shorting against the outer cylindrical body of the unit. I'm cleaning up the original Bosch unit an will install that instead.
- lights not blinking....attributed to a bad bulb on one of the small dash mounted turn indicator lights.

I'm still trying to get the emergency flasher system flashing consistently. Not sure if the main issue is perhaps with the small 6A -12V battery charger than I'm using? I didn't want to go with the full battery power/current flows till everything is connected and grounded so I'm plodding along a little bit each day.
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1971 1750 GTV 105.48 (sold), 1972 1300GTJunior (sold)
1969 1750 GTV 105.5 , 1972 Montreal
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post #1364 of 1570 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 12:42 AM
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the correct brake fluid resistant hose is available thru OKP.de or , as I purchase it, from Dinoparts.de.

Normal fuel hose will let brake fluid through.


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post #1365 of 1570 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 09:29 AM
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It is not uncommon for reservoirs to be separate from the master cylinders so there is appropriate hose out there, plus I bet the paint damage we see around this area is not from hose failure or leaks but from spills. Remember when putting new pads in you have to push the caliper pistons back, that means the brake fluid level in the reservoir goes up and if the owner had topped it up it overflows and spills.

I won't be using silicon brake fluid, I will simply be doing what mechanics have done for ~50 years and have a large bottle of water available and after any work on the fluid side of brakes, water gets poured over anything remotely in the area. This obviously includes when brakes are bled.
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'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
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