AFrench Blue '69 GTV Restoration - Page 103 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1531 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Checking out the bottom end details and I have a feeling that the lower timing chain might be stretched. However I do not see anything in the factory manual that tells us what the length should be. What should be the method of checking this exactly? I know reproduction chains are available...but how good are they really?
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1971 1750 GTV 105.48 (sold), 1972 1300GTJunior (sold)
1969 1750 GTV 105.5 , 1972 Montreal
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post #1532 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 11:46 PM
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A common issue, I believe
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post #1533 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 11:51 PM
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Checking out the bottom end details and I have a feeling that the lower timing chain might be stretched. However I do not see anything in the factory manual that tells us what the length should be. What should be the method of checking this exactly? I know reproduction chains are available...but how good are they really?
Go with IWIS chains, then you're on the safe side,

KR

Thomas

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(Jan 1967 1300 GT Junior, in bluette w/oxblood skai inetrior)
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post #1534 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 02:53 AM
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Thereís a mod that allows for a silent bloc/tensioner to be mounted in the casting to the bottom left (7-8 oíclock). I canít remember the thread. From memory itís a standard piece available for many, many engines.

Other vendors available, etc...

https://www.alfaholics.com/parts/105...r-lower-chain/
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post #1535 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 03:30 AM
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I have put new repro chains on 3 Alfa engines I rebuilt.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa-romeo-club-canada-toronto-chapter/149533-alfa-parts-garage-sale.html

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post #1536 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 07:51 AM
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There’s a mod that allows for a silent bloc/tensioner to be mounted in the casting to the bottom left (7-8 o’clock). I can’t remember the thread. From memory it’s a standard piece available for many, many engines.

Other vendors available, etc...

https://www.alfaholics.com/parts/105...r-lower-chain/
Can't remember if I've seen it here but there's a mod using mini parts (as far as I remember) to recreate the Alfaholics part.
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post #1537 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 08:04 AM
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That thing is overkill for a street engine. A new chain is the way to go.

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post #1538 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 01:19 PM
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I wonder how long a new chain lasts? I think not long, as its a bad design as the shafts are too close together meaning the chain spends most of its time going from straight to turning ... promoting wear. Adding a tensioner probably makes the chain stretch quicker as more link turning ...

Luckily this flaw does not produce a timing chain rattle like for example the original Mini (replace timing chain and by weeks end they rattle again).

I know the Chysler v8 of the 70s uses a different chain design which MIGHT be superior in this sort on installation ... but one heck of a reengineering job
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post #1539 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by brad fischer View Post
I have put new repro chains on 3 Alfa engines I rebuilt.
Do you recall the brand name of those? Was there a noticeable difference in droop between the old and new chains though?

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That thing is overkill for a street engine. A new chain is the way to go.
I was going to agree totally with you on this. But note that the Montreal engines utilize such a tensioner on the lower chain as well....there must be some benefit on the use.

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I wonder how long a new chain lasts?
We might not ever find out...at least not until those engines get rebuilt.

I'm not planning on doing any performance mods whatsoever to this engine. My aim is to keep it all original and I hope that emissions will be close to what the engine achieved at the time as well. Ideally I was hoping that there was a way of checking the length....or amount of droop on the original chain.


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post #1540 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 03:44 PM
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I was going to agree totally with you on this. But note that the Montreal engines utilize such a tensioner on the lower chain as well....there must be some benefit on the use.
It's a different engine. If you want to know the benefits of that gizmo, talk to an engine builder who specializes in race engines. IMHO, it's overkill for a street engine. Yours is going to be stock, so it's even less necessary.

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post #1541 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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It's a different engine. If you want to know the benefits of that gizmo, talk to an engine builder who specializes in race engines. IMHO, it's overkill for a street engine. Yours is going to be stock, so it's even less necessary.
You may just be right. I'd still like to know the difference in slack between a new chain and a used one. I want to measure mine to see if it's way out of the "correct" size.


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post #1542 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 03:39 PM
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My dad was a Machinist/Tool and Die... he showed me how to look for wear. The new chains show less flex/play/slack/droop than the used. Don't remember the brand of the chain we bought.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa-romeo-club-canada-toronto-chapter/149533-alfa-parts-garage-sale.html
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post #1543 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 05:19 PM
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Can't remember if I've seen it here but there's a mod using mini parts (as far as I remember) to recreate the Alfaholics part.
I recognise it from a Renault 12.
I think there are thousands (ok many) of engines with this


There was also a mod that replaced the chain with gears, not sure how successful that was
https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alf...ump-drive.html


I only mentioned them as a bit of lower chain trivia, history etc

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post #1544 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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.... Don't remember the brand of the chain we bought.
I see quite a range in prices on these...from CA at BP 9.0 (made in India Rolon brand)... to OKP at EURO 42.00 (IWIS brand made in Germany). I'm thinking that if the cheap ones are made in India with the usual inferior materials (and questionable Quality control)...they won't last so long anyways....in which case the original one I have now may be just as good a couple of years from now. Or, I go for the better (presumably) German made one...but it'll probably end up costing me $120.00 (all in).


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post #1545 of 1571 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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....There was also a mod that replaced the chain with gears, not sure how successful that was......
Totally unnecessary for my application....but maybe for an all out race set up.


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1971 1750 GTV 105.48 (sold), 1972 1300GTJunior (sold)
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