AFrench Blue '69 GTV Restoration - Page 102 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1516 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 12:16 AM
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Can I send you my block for cleaning?

How'd you do that?
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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post #1517 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 12:20 AM
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Balanced?

Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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post #1518 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 03:34 AM
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Are any of us balanced, Pete?
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post #1519 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
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Cleaning wise....varsol wash & scrub with plastic bristle brushes...followed by citrus orange de-greasing cleaning agent which is sold as ZEP industrial brand up here. It works a charm to brighten up the aluminum, break down the oil, varsol and grease and break down the calcium deposits on the walls of block around the head studs. Followed that with a hot water rinse. Repeated this a few times. A lot of shops offer a cleaning service for this...cost I was quoted was around $100 for this. The Factory workshop manual recommends a hot sodium bicarbonate wash.

Balancing ....of course....I sent out the crank, pulley, flywheel, clutch , pistons & pins and rods to get balanced. I'm using the services of D.Garland & Sons balancing ...hope to get these back by end of the week.
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1971 1750 GTV 105.48 (sold), 1972 1300GTJunior (sold)
1969 1750 GTV 105.5 , 1972 Montreal
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post #1520 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 10:30 AM
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@1750GT, beautiful work.

Jonathan
1974 GTV 2000 (ex-1992 Spider Veloce)
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post #1521 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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@1750GT, beautiful work.
Thanks....but nothing fancy here....just a very basic rebuild.


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1971 1750 GTV 105.48 (sold), 1972 1300GTJunior (sold)
1969 1750 GTV 105.5 , 1972 Montreal

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post #1522 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Before updating with the the cylinder head work I completed so far...I was wondering what others do about excessive pinch on the main bearing caps? The factory manual recommends the following....

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I'm getting a much larger gapping condition .......0.006" & 0.009". I can see how to correct if the pinch is too low (as noted in the manual)...but how to deal with excess? I should mention that when torqued down to full value the cranshaft actually rotates OK I believe. I mean it doesn't continue spinning on it's own momentum if turned....but seems to turns easily enough. What is the general consensus on this?


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1971 1750 GTV 105.48 (sold), 1972 1300GTJunior (sold)
1969 1750 GTV 105.5 , 1972 Montreal
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post #1523 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
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Are any of us balanced, Pete?
Not me

Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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post #1524 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1750GT View Post
I'm getting a much larger gapping condition .......0.006" & 0.009". I can see how to correct if the pinch is too low (as noted in the manual)...but how to deal with excess? I should mention that when torqued down to full value the cranshaft actually rotates OK I believe. I mean it doesn't continue spinning on it's own momentum if turned....but seems to turns easily enough. What is the general consensus on this?
I would plasti-gauge the actual bearing clearance, as (I'm not sure) isn't that the most important dimension?

And thanks for the cleaning instructions, and I knew you would have balanced everything
Pete

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post #1525 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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I would plastigauge the actual bearing clearance, as (I'm not sure) isn't that the most important dimension? ....
You're right and will go with the suggestion. I was so hoping to have the crank back from the balance shop by now....but such was not the case....I'll have to wait till next week. In the meantime I ordered some plastigage from ebay....it came in 3 days.

You know that the world is changing when the only place you can get these specialized products nowadays are online. I checked 4 Auto parts suppliers and only one of them knew what Plastigage even was...the others were clueless....mind you it didn't matter because only the one had them listed in their database...but no stock.

I guess in today's throw away society....not many of us are rebuilding engines these days.


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1971 1750 GTV 105.48 (sold), 1972 1300GTJunior (sold)
1969 1750 GTV 105.5 , 1972 Montreal
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post #1526 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 04:12 AM
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...You know that the world is changing when the only place you can get these specialized products nowadays are online. I checked 4 Auto parts suppliers and only one of them knew what Plastigage even was...the others were clueless....mind you it didn't matter because only the one had them listed in their database...but no stock.

I guess in today's throw away society....not many of us are rebuilding engines these days.

Perhaps it's because I'm in Detroit but I haven't had a problem finding plastigauge locally - even from the big box stores. OTOH, I rarely find anyone that knows what I'm talking about...

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post #1527 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 05:25 AM
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God thatís clean... I want one like that

'66 1600 Duetto | '73 1600 GTJunior | '03 156 1.9JTD Sportwagon | '11 Giulietta QV (wow, revelation) | I really don't need this many Alfa's...
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post #1528 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 06:18 AM
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Wonder if someone rubbed down the bearing caps on a previous rebuild to overcompensate for a worn crank.? What is the downside of larger gapping as you measured.? I have checked the pinch on all the engines I have rebuilt and remember rubbing down some bearing caps and using plastigauge. Curious to see your plastigauge readings.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa-romeo-club-canada-toronto-chapter/149533-alfa-parts-garage-sale.html

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post #1529 of 1594 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 12:18 AM
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I had exactly the same issue when rebuilding my Duetto's 1600 (thirteen years ago already--I'm getting old). You can see the thread here.

To cut to the chase, here's what Papajam wrote at the time:

Quote:
This feeler gauge method is measuring bearing 'crush', an indirect way of measuring bearing clearance. Plain shell bearings, when fitted to the saddle and the cap, do not sit flush with the saddle/cap mating surfaces; they stick up a little bit. When the cap is tightened, the shells are pressed into the saddle and cap, or crushed, as an aid, along with the notches in the bearings, to prevent the bearing from spinning and to obtain proper bearing clearance. Too much crush clearance, as what Alex has, means insufficient bearing clearance. Not enough crush clearance results in too much bearing clearance.

Then came Pastigauge.

One could always use inside and outside mikes and calculate the clearance as machine shops do.
Being Jim, he of course came to my house to help me. Just the nicest guy you could hope to meet. Using an inside and outside micrometer he calculated that the journals were just a touch smaller than spec, but not so much that it would be a problem. I believe Jim also used Plastigauge to confirm his measurements. Both methods were in agreement. He was right (of course) and the engine rebuild turned out great. I get the oil analyzed ever few years and it's always had low metals.

Hope this helps.

Alex


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1750GT View Post
Before updating with the the cylinder head work I completed so far...I was wondering what others do about excessive pinch on the main bearing caps? The factory manual recommends the following....

Attachment 1567190

I'm getting a much larger gapping condition .......0.006" & 0.009". I can see how to correct if the pinch is too low (as noted in the manual)...but how to deal with excess? I should mention that when torqued down to full value the cranshaft actually rotates OK I believe. I mean it doesn't continue spinning on it's own momentum if turned....but seems to turns easily enough. What is the general consensus on this?
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1966 Duetto 1600
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post #1530 of 1594 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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I resolved my problem of excess pinch on the main caps after studying the informative bearing guide by Mahle..

https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/me...s-brochure.pdf

I came to the conclusion (obvious now) that the bearing shells come slightly over length from the manufacturer and the ends need to be ground down (in my case about .004" each). So I carefully wet ground them down 0.001" at a time using a fine flat grinding stone, then reassembled and checked again....repeating these steps until achieving the required .003"-.0039" of crush. Once satisfied with that, I verified using Clevite plastigage that the clearance was within 0.0006"-0.0022" factory spec.

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My final gaps are all at 0.0015" which is above the mid point range....but I think I prefer to be a little looser than too tight. Next I will need to repeat the same process for the connecting rod ends.
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1971 1750 GTV 105.48 (sold), 1972 1300GTJunior (sold)
1969 1750 GTV 105.5 , 1972 Montreal
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