'61 Giulietta Spider engine identification? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 04:09 AM Thread Starter
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'61 Giulietta Spider engine identification?

I recently purchased a partially disassembled 101 spider restoration project that currently has a 1600 engine and a 5-speed in it.

Since I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to the intricacies of 101 running gear, I'd like to know what things to check to pinpoint what model the engine and gearbox came out of.

I don't see the two tabs on the front of the cam cover, so it's an earlier engine, logically I'd say at some point the entire engine and drive train from a 101 1600 normale were transplanted into it along with a pancake style airfilter to clear the hood. Front of the head is stamped 10500-01500-00 but I understand 105 stamped heads could be found in later Giulia Spiders? Carb looks like the normale Solex.

I also found a bunch of '62 Berlina TI spares and paperwork, did those have the 5-speed by then and if so, are the ratios the same as the spider box?

I can get some better/more specific photos, but for now the attached picture is all I have, perhaps the eagle eyed amongst you can spot some specific details that aren't "right". Full size image here: CLICK
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Last edited by Furrikain; 01-17-2019 at 04:12 AM.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 06:05 AM
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The tabs came in 1966. Early 1600s did not have them. With a 105 casting number and the round core plugs, it's a 1600 head. And with vertical distance above the water pump before the head parting line, looks like a 1600. The block number should be on a raised boss behind the distributor. Might take a bit of cleaning to see it.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 06:08 AM
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It's a Bosch regulator to go with the Bosch generator. A 101 Normale would have had Lucas items.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the insights Andrew. You're correct in that it is definetely a 1600, I just don't know what it came out of. I'm not really a forum guy, but every year or so I'll post a few things here when another project has crossed my path and you're always one of the users replying with interesting information, nice to see you're still at it.

I'll try to get a look at the engine number and snap a few pics of the gearbox casing as well next time I'm with the car. The seller told me it had been fitted with a Berlina TI engine, and I must confess I know next to nothing about Berlinas, but I was under the impression those came with a 1300.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 06:39 AM
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Each engine ## series went with a particular model or models, so the number should tell.
Giulietta TI and Giulietta Berlina are different models, even though in the same basic body.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 06:44 AM Thread Starter
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I must confess complete ignorance with regards to Giulietta sedans. I always thought of the t.i. designation the same way as "Veloce". You're right of course, the tag states Giulietta t.i. Tipo 101.29. It ended up being scavenged for parts I'm afraid, I have its grille, taillights, hubcaps and a few other bits looking rather sad in a moldy cardboard box.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 07:39 AM
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Furricain

Without the engine serial number we are left to guessing what this 1600 engine was originally installed in.

I believe you are aware of the location of the engine serial number .. but I will provide some direction as to its location.
Your pic displays a glimpse of the FISPA fuel pump, mounted low on the right side of the engine - see attached pic.
The engine serial number is located at this right side, at a low level on a raised boss or plinth.

The Giulietta Spider chassis, painted in AR323 Blue, displays a tired appearance with erratic maintenance.
Is this typical for vintage Alfa Romeos in Belgium?
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 07:42 AM
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If it's a 1600 it might be the engine from an early 105 Series Ti, which would make it a 00514 block

Have a look here for the engine number, this a 750 Veloce block, but the location of the engine number will be the same for 750/101 and most of the 105 Series

Note that this early engine does NOT have the block mounted fuel pump where GTD indicated it to be, that fitment came with the later 101 Series

Aye
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Some 750's
Some 101's
Some 105's
Some others
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 07:55 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTD View Post
The Giulietta Spider chassis, painted in AR323 Blue, displays a tired appearance with erratic maintenance.
Is this typical for vintage Alfa Romeos in Belgium?
Something about the way you worded that made me laugh.

I believe the erratic appearance to be quite universal when it comes to buying a mostly disassembled restoration project that comes with a bunch of damp boxes and parts wrapped in newspapers dated 1987.

I don't know what AR323 corresponds to, but it was originally a blu medio car with white interior, at least two color changes ago that is. Quite rare I believe, but given the car is no longer original in terms of the engine, I may decide to paint it a different color since I already own a '69 blu Francia stepnose, a bit too similar.

Thanks for the info everyone, I'll be sure to bring an inspection mirror to have a look at the engine number when I go to pick up the next batch of parts.
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Last edited by Furrikain; 01-17-2019 at 08:12 AM.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 11:14 AM
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Just stick your phone under the carbs and take pictures of the engine number - much easier than a mirror !!

I normally clean the area with a small wire brush & a damp cloth and then take pictures !!

Hartelyke groeten uit Zuid Afrika

Greig

Some 750's
Some 101's
Some 105's
Some others
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Finally managed to get to the car. The engine serial number is AR00112 14126.

Anyone know what this engine is out of? The highest Giulia 1600 spider normale engine number is 13433 for a 1965 model according to Giuliettas.com and I couldn't see it in some of the Fusi scans I found online.

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 12:51 PM
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Fusi has quite a few mistakes and omissions, so either late '65 or early '66

Ciao
Greig

Some 750's
Some 101's
Some 105's
Some others
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Late '65/early '66 would explain the 105 stamped head as well I suppose, mystery solved then. Nice bonus, initially I was told the engine came out of a Giulietta Berlina (don't think those even came with 1600 motors).
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