Transmission shift lever help please - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-21-2012, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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Transmission shift lever help please

Pressing down on the shift lever to engage reverse gear has been difficult, so I decided do a rebuild of the shift lever today and I have several questions. The car is a 1960 Giulietta Spider with a 5 speed split case transmission. Number on the transmission body is 10100-13101. Number on the tail end with the rear mount is 105.02.13.102.00.

The transmission end has two balls, one slightly smaller than the other. Which one goes in to the shift lever first?

Should the two balls and the small chamber in which they reside be loaded up with grease or left clean?

I think I've seen other reverse-lockout type transmissions with a small pin on the shift lever. The upper part of the lever has a groove for this pin to keep the upper lever from turning (I think this is all correct). If so, my lever does not have this pin. There are two holes in my lever arm, one on the front side and one on the rear side, in line with each other. The one on the front side is slightly larger than the one on the rear side. Does a pin go in here? Which side? How does it allow the shaft on the inside move up and down? How does it stay in place?

Finally, it seems that the inner shaft is either too long or needs a stop somewhere to keep it from moving out as far as it does on my shift lever. The upper lever is about 0.5 inches above the holes referred to in the previous paragraph. This doesn't seem right. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for the help.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-21-2012, 01:54 PM
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I believe that the two balls should be the same size.....
Here are some pics of the lever with pin. It only keeps the part with the knob from rotating.
There is indeed supposed to be a rubber end on the shaft running inside the lever. It keeps the shaft from rattleing and keeps it from extending too far.
Absolutly no grease should be used on the balls as this breaks down the rubber and you end up with the your condition.
Last pic is of a new shifter I found recently and I can see the rubber at the end of the shaft.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-21-2012, 03:35 PM
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Alex, I can't really tell from the photos if you have the early lock-out or the later one. It must be an early one from you description. You might look into obtaining a later piece which is a plate that fits over the shift stub. I'm sorry that I don't have more details but email me if you want me to photo my set-up. I can also apply some rational thought and give you a better explanation.

Jim Whitaker
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-21-2012, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the photos Randy. I'll start looking for a shift lever in better shape. In the mean time; Jim, I will send an email to you so I can see the setup you've been using.
Best

Alex in VA
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-21-2012, 08:40 PM
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Confirming the two reverse-shift balls are, in my experience, the same size.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-21-2012, 08:45 PM
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I think that I can apply some rational thought....
One fix that some use is to disable the reverse lock out at the trans tower and then use a late model shifter.
I shop in Europe for new or good condition shift levers.
Randy

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'68 Giulia Super

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 01:20 AM
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Hi Alex et al

Our Jewels were built in a Metric country, so the two shift ball bearings are metric and not imperial, they should be 10mm, any difference will come from a substitute ball bearing courtesy of a previous owner. A thou or two too big & the ball will stick in the angle of the 'neck', a thou or two too small & you will battle to get enough travel to select reverse.

I've been there, done that with my '60 Spider (10990) & it will need to come apart again because the darn thing still has a 'buzz' rattle at 70mph although Lucie has become quite adept at sticking a bit of paper between the two parts while we are on the move....

Randy's solution is a good one, if you are careful, you can re-assemble the lever so that it does not rattle, perhaps a bit of heat shrink onto the shift slide & then end up with the lever looking cosmetically correct, but with the later lockout plate in the turret for safety. I'm going to have one last go at my car & then if I still have that annoying buzz, it's the above solution for me.

Ciao
Greig
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 06:30 AM
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I've had plenty of 105 cars with the lockout stud missing or so backed out it didn't do any good. Never hit reverse by accident.
Jaan Hjorth and others have done studies of ball bearings and I thought they were pretty much all US/Brit sizes, regardless of whether in metric cars or not. One of those Industrial Revolution things that never evolved further.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 09:03 AM
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Alex
To answer your questions:
Quote:
Does a pin go in here?
Yes (but it's not depicted on the parts diagram below !)
Quote:
Which side?
In the forward side of the shifter - larger hole (smaller hole is used to insert a punch to replace the pin)
Quote:
How does it allow the shaft on the inside move up and down?
The pin does not extend into the hollow section of the shaft - it makes no contact with the rod inside the shaft.
Quote:
How does it stay in place?
Friction. It is a press fit. The pin was originally about 5mm diameter where it locks the upper section from turning and machined smaller were it is pressed into the hollow shaft. These dimensions have worn over the years - adjustments are usually necessary.

Quote:
it seems that the inner shaft is either too long or needs a stop ...
This indicates that the lower end of the rod (102.02.13.068.01) is worn and allowing excess travel upward.

The South Africa Savant is correct about the two 10mm ball bearings (2900.34029). They should be held in place with grease when installing the shifter onto the transmission. There is no rubber here at the lower end of the shifter to deteriorate from the use of grease.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 09:17 AM
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McMaster-Carr has a good supply of metric balls are reasonable prices. See -- McMaster-Carr

Mike R
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 12:44 PM
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My status has been elevated from boilermaker's rivet polisher's apprentice's mate to South Africa Savant....lol

We've done this a few times and 10mm measured with Vernier calipers (thanx for those digital calipers) is the correct size, the last time we struggled was with one was on the new Spider where the second ball measured 9.2mm or something similar and the shift lever struggled to select reverse. Replaced with a 10mm ball & problem solved.

Ciao
Greig
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Andrew, GTD, and of course the South African Savant (hope the name sticks ).

Well, I knew size mattered, but I didn't realize that ball size mattered. Self esteem could be negatively affected.

I measured the two balls and have a 10.3mm ball and a 9.0mm ball. Does this mean that both are the incorrect size? I will check with my local hardware store for steel balls as well as online sources.

Okay, some say grease before assembly, others say no grease. Need a tiebreaker here. Any new votes for or against greasing the ball bearings before assembly?

Again thanks for all the contributions. The collective knowledge of the alfabb membership is irreplaceable.

Alex in VA
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 08:01 PM
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Hate to burst a savants bubble......
But on the NOS lever that I have there is a rubber end on the rod thru the center of the lever.
Will try to get a decent pic tomorrow.
Randy

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'67 GTV
'68 Giulia Super

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 10:11 AM
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The gear lever on my 10123 has the sliding reverse lock but it is out of order. I never had a problem to select reverse and the reverse never engaged by accident.

My question may seem naive, but how does the thing work when its new and in order ? Does one have to push down or pull up the gear knob to select reverse ?

Then another question : does it make sense to lock the d... sliding sleeve to prevent it from turning and/or sliding ? In which position : up or down ?

Thanks in advance !
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA_Alfa View Post
Okay, some say grease before assembly, others say no grease. Need a tiebreaker here. Any new votes for or against greasing the ball bearings before assembly?
As opinions on grease or no grease seems to vary, the simple solution would be, have you a rubber end on the shaft, don´t use it, if not, use it as it facilitates the ball bearings installation.
Dennis
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