Giulia updates? - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #31 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 07:22 AM
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Here's Chris Harris initial review of the manual shift version. Great location.


1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
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post #32 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 07:59 AM
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Wait a second - you have to heel-toe whether you're double-clutching or rev-matching. How are you going to rev-match if you don't? The double-clutch utilizes the left foot rather than the right. Well - both, but the "double" part is the left.

I always rev-match on braking down-shifts as a matter of habit. The pedals in my 2005 Audi (made 2 decades after the unintended acceleration debacle) are perfectly placed for it, as was the Renault Clio I rented in Switzerland last month. OTOH, in my 115-series Alfa Romeo (no relation to this thread) where I have to double-clutch the brake and throttle pedals don't have a great relationship. But I suppose that's part of the joy of owning an Alfa Romeo (the defunct car manufacturing company, not to be confused with the badges currently used by Fiat).

I doubt that this Chris Harris guy is a "real gear-head" per the definition defined by the Top Gear/Grand Tour trio (i.e. he's never owned a real Alfa Romeo).

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post #33 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
Heel and toe is made much more difficult by the current practice of separating the brake and clutch pedals laterally in order for the car makers to be able to have their expert witnesses claim that it is impossible for the driver to operate the wrong pedal.

This is in response to the Audi unintended acceleration nonsense claims that nearly killed off that brand.

The only time you would "need" to brake and rev match simultaneously is when trail braking quite hard into the initial portion of the cornerand you require a downshift at the same time. The gear needs to be engaged while under brakes and you don't want the clutch pedal still depressed as you come off the brake pedal. This is a pretty rare condition on the street, to be frank. Far more often you never trail brake into a corner on the street because you just are nowhere near the limits of the car.



The other topic in this thread is the styling of the Giulia. It's a definite head turner. One of those cars you look back at as you leave it parked....
The manual Giulia is actually well positioned for heel toe, if the pre-production QV I sat in at the AROC convention is any indication.

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post #34 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 08:21 AM
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I'm surprised they're not offered in Europe. I travel to Europe quite a lot and my rentals are always manual and the cars I ride around in are almost always manual. But then I rent cheap cars and hang out with working men rather than posh people. Last year when I rented a car in Holland the lady behind the counter said "oh, you're American? I love Americans!" then her face fell when she had to break the news they had no autos on the lot - and perked back up when I said that wasn't a problem. In Switzerland two months ago they were quite proud to announce that they'd secured an auto just for my American *** but when I told them I preferred a manual they said "oh, we have lots of those" - and I got this little Clio that was fun as heck on Alpine roads. Gah - I'd buy one today if they were sold here!

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post #35 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 10:22 AM
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Michael - AR is offering huge discounts on unsold MY2018s and I couldnt pass it up. Heading to Ohio in a couple weeks to get a new Misano Blue Quad. I have to sell my current toy, a Shelby GT350, which will be difficult, but I think I'm ready for the change.
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post #36 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 11:57 AM
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It will be a change alright!!

You'll have no difficulty finding a buyer for your 'stang, but I hear you. The latter Mustangs developed with integral link IRS handle exceptionally well compared to older live axle suspended cars. The Torsen LSD is pretty sweet, gives you the good old fashioned axle squirm feeling just like the old live axle cars did with open differentials.

But, really, the Giulia will be pretty much completely different to drive.

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post #37 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nealric View Post
The manual Giulia is actually well positioned for heel toe, if the pre-production QV I sat in at the AROC convention is any indication.
Good to hear, but then of course it was intended for the European market where drivers are expected to know which pedal they need to push, even two at once....

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post #38 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GV27 View Post
Wait a second - you have to heel-toe whether you're double-clutching or rev-matching. How are you going to rev-match if you don't? The double-clutch utilizes the left foot rather than the right. Well - both, but the "double" part is the left.

I always rev-match on braking down-shifts as a matter of habit. The pedals in my 2005 Audi (made 2 decades after the unintended acceleration debacle) are perfectly placed for it, as was the Renault Clio I rented in Switzerland last month. OTOH, in my 115-series Alfa Romeo (no relation to this thread) where I have to double-clutch the brake and throttle pedals don't have a great relationship. But I suppose that's part of the joy of owning an Alfa Romeo (the defunct car manufacturing company, not to be confused with the badges currently used by Fiat).

I doubt that this Chris Harris guy is a "real gear-head" per the definition defined by the Top Gear/Grand Tour trio (i.e. he's never owned a real Alfa Romeo).
I realize this. My point really is heel and toe isn't needed for street driving because you can easily separate the braking from the shifting.

As for "perfectly placed" pedals that may be a little subjective. All the SAABs I owned or drove really did have perfectly spaced and placed pedal sets. Audi's not so much. My 2001 S4 was pretty poor but manageable. My 1982 GTV 6 was very, very good. BMW do this very well. Etc etc. My 1961 Vauxhall Victor had well placed pedals, now there was a demanding car to drive fast.....

PS

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/chr...kes-us-smile#7

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new

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post #39 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 12:21 PM
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Big change! I'll be posting pics soon! Thank you!
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