keyless ignition? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
Del
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keyless ignition?

Does the Giulia/Stelvio have keyless ignition?

I see that the Feds are talking about requiring all new vehicles with keyless ignition to shut off after a certain amount of time if the car is parked but with engine running, due to the fact that many drivers seem to accidentally leave the engine idling after parking, and if the car is in a garage, the CO produced can kill house occupants. Another proposal is to have the horn beep several time and/or the car audibly warn the driver that the car is still idling after parking.

They are also thinking of requiring that a car cannot be moved if the engine is not shut after parking. The legislation would require carmakers to install technology that prevents a car from moving if the driverís door is opened, the driverís seat buckle is unfastened, and a brake is not engaged.

I'm personally not sure the idea of a keyless setup is worth it, having found that real keys work just fine, and without the associated electronics/complexity of the keyless idea.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 12:28 PM
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Yes they do.

Keyless entry is also really handy.

An emergency metal key is still provided but only to open the doors or trunk lid.

Given that current anti theft designs require matching chips in the car and the "key" a metal key is already obsolete.

As for automatic switch off we already have that feature available integrated with stop/start also soon to be ubiquitous. If I undo my seatbelt while my Jaguar engine is stopped in a stop/start cycle the ignition is switched off and the transmission places itself in P.

We are one year away from widespread adoption of 48v engine electrical systems. Stop/start will be integral with that system as the starter, alternator and torque converter or clutch will be replaced by an electric motor. All engines will stop when the vehicle stops and only start up again after the electric motor initially moves the car.

This feature will prove to be very handy. Automatic ignition switch off will occur any time the driver exits the vehicle since there will be no need for the engine to remain on nor the ignition to be on.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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I've read that many of the new keyless systems can be overridden by ingenious thieves, and car manufacturers are working hard to stop this. I'm sure it's just me, lol, but I see no real need for these systems. They end up being even more complicated in order to overcome their initial drawbacks. Meanwhile, my key works just fine for what I need.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 09:54 PM
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Marketing wankers ruining the lifes of the many because car designers have run out of ideas, so we play with gimmicks.

Best solution is to ban it, the electric handbrake, the electric park brake, and finally the Start button.
Pete
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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Indeed. Just toys.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
I've read that many of the new keyless systems can be overridden by ingenious thieves, and car manufacturers are working hard to stop this. I'm sure it's just me, lol, but I see no real need for these systems. They end up being even more complicated in order to overcome their initial drawbacks. Meanwhile, my key works just fine for what I need.
Not true. More Internet madness than reality. The devices required to hack a few makers security are hard to get hold of and expensive. The devices boost the transmission of the fob, itself very tricky to arrange given the very short range of modern fob transmitters. Also, the thief still doesn't get the software needed to resell the car. These thefts are not much different to flat decking. Cars boosted in this way are destined for black market parts distribution, itself a dying business because of security embedded in valuable components.

Facts are that car thefts are way down ever since ecu disabling software was instituted.

The complicated part of any modern car is its ecu. Adding keyless entry and ignition to the ecu does not add to complexity already there. Software has transformed car ownership and operation for the better. Maintenance is now frequently limited to oil changes once per year. My 2013 cars require refuelling and once per year oil and filter. That's it. Keyless entry and keyless start are robust technologies. More reliable than the lock and key they replace. Believe it.

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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 06:08 AM
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Marketing wankers ruining the lifes of the many because car designers have run out of ideas, so we play with gimmicks.

Best solution is to ban it, the electric handbrake, the electric park brake, and finally the Start button.
Pete
On the contrary, the improvements you identify are engineering. Nothing to do with marketing. Touch screens are marketing gimmicks and hazardous enough to warrant banning. Start buttons are safer (no ignition key to injure occupants in a crash) and far more secure than metal keys (despite internet stories to the contrary the facts are undeniable, you just can't steal a start button equipped car for resale as a complete car).

Electric park brakes are very handy, just not if you insist on driving an antique manual shift car. Even those now have fully automatic hill start software so even old folks can still drive a manual shift if you can find one to buy, that is. The modern Alfa Romeos are automatic only as are most new designs.

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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 06:44 AM
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I've had a keyless car and it was a great feature.
In my last two years of school I had a Morris Minor convertible. One of the older ones with the flat head engine.
Misplaced my keys one morning so I hot-wired the ignition.
And later came up with the "keyless" feature.
Brit cars then had "trafficators" with the lighted arms that came out on the sides to indicate a turn.
Mine were not working.
And the signal switch, itself, was non-cancelling. It was under the dash.
There was the usual place to insert the ignition key and turn it.
Then you pulled the starter thing, which looked like a choke pull.
Moved the wires from the ignition slot to the turn switch.
No keys needed at all and why bother locking a convertible?
To start:
Turn switch to left-turn.
Pull starter.
Drive.

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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 06:52 AM
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I'm with Pete. The keyless ignition is the answer to a question nobody asked and is actually a cost reduction by eliminating the traditional ignition tumbler lock. The same is true with touch screens replacing traditional controls such as radio, heater, A/C, etc.

Quote:
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....car designers have run out of ideas, so we play with gimmicks....Pete
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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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Friend of mine has a Tesla X, and he was always fiddling with the big TV screen in the center console, paying less attention to his driving than I thought proper or safe. He always had to eyeball the screen to see where he would touch that screen in the area he wanted. Not nearly as convenient and easy as a knob or switch. The Tesla 3 is worse, IMO, as the only display is the screen over in the middle of the dash, where you always have to look over at to do something. Big no no in my book. Toys for boys, lol.

"Turn switch to left-turn.
Pull starter.
Drive"

Yes, simple. My version:

insert key
turn key
drive.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 09:50 AM
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The advantage was:

No key nor fob--at all.
Completely free of clutter in your pockets.
No worries about loosing the key.
Doubtless it would confuse valet parking guys.


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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 10:56 AM
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The advantage was:

No key nor fob--at all.
Completely free of clutter in your pockets.
No worries about loosing the key.
Doubtless it would confuse valet parking guys.

I had a Vauxhall Victor that could be started without the key. One day I pulled the key out but discovered that the lock had become disabled. Twisting the ignition switch without the key in place started the engine from then on. Handy keyless start.

Nobody can seriously suggest that a tumbler lock is more secure, let alone convenient, than a purely electronic keyless start. That's nonsense. With keyless start you cannot start the engine without the correct fob very close by, in your pocket works.

You cannot hotwire one if these cars, not even the factory can do that. And you cannot bypass the lock with barber's scissors or a slide hammer. There isn't one.

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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 11:01 AM
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I'm with Pete. The keyless ignition is the answer to a question nobody asked and is actually a cost reduction by eliminating the traditional ignition tumbler lock. The same is true with touch screens replacing traditional controls such as radio, heater, A/C, etc.
The touch screen is even more insidious than it at first appears. The driving force behind these silly components was built in satnav. Now a minimum area of dashboard was required to display navigation mapping. That eliminated the dashboard space previously used for proper switches. That's why the touchscreen got invented: to provide a place for electronic versions of analog switches displaced by the real estate occupied by pictures of where you were going.

My particular bugbear is the really idiotic "iPad" type touch screens now multiplying on dashboards like some kind of fungal growth. Ugly and always in your field of vision. Really stupid. If you have to look at a satnav screen so attentively and continuously you really should pull over and read a map. To have to look at the screen to adjust the radio or climate controls is really dangerous.

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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 11:20 AM
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I would worry about electronic hand brake and gearbox. In a case of emergency there are no procedures to unblock them.

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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 03:08 PM
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I would worry about electronic hand brake and gearbox. In a case of emergency there are no procedures to unblock them.

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Booster cables. Or one of those Li ion booster battery units.

Also, there are ways to unlock the ZF 8 spd. Jaguar has a procedure in the owner's manual, very easy to do. The park brake just needs 12v.

Or

https://www.searchautoparts.com/moto...parking-brakes

Leaving aside the supposed emergency giving rise to this need there are a lot of ways mechanical systems can become "blocked".

I am sensing a pattern here though. I cannot recommend any modern car to many of the posters in this thread.....

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new

Last edited by Michael Smith; 03-01-2019 at 03:13 PM.
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