keyless ignition? - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 6Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 06:53 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Posts: 2,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
"Modern cars are orders of magnitude more reliable than old cars were when they were new"

Well, THAT is a questionable statement, what with all the recalls of millions of cars each year. The newest one I've read about are the fires in the new Kias and Hyundais. Plus, the WSJ today describes a huge recall by the well loved Subaru concerning brake problems.

Never ending.
THAT is objective fact. Somewhat ironically given your remarks the recall system drives this reliability improvement to some degree as does the regulatory environment for autos in the US which makes even the EU system look benignly democratic.

Recalls are driven by the US federal government regulatory environment and your out of control tort litigation "system" in turn driven by an equally out of control insurance industry. Ironically, a recall is not necessarily even an indication of a fault.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
Michael Smith is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 06:57 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Posts: 2,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnalfa View Post
There are two problems with the Giulia key fob. First is the size; the actual case is much larger than the circuit board and battery inside. Seems like Alfa could have slimmed it down quite a bit. Second is the size and sensitivity of the panic button. It's the largest button on the fob and very easy to activate unintentionally. I've set it off plenty of times in my jacket pocket just by bending over. Too bad the same engineering detail that went into the car didn't carry over to the fob.
The minimum size is limited by the length of the metal emergency key, somewhat ironically. Also, humans are susceptible to illusion when assessing value. The smallest possible keyfob assuming a metal key need not be concealed inside would be unpopular for many reasons.

As for criticizing the panic button for being too easily operated, I mean really? Are you also a fan of hideaway rip cords for parachutes?

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
Michael Smith is offline  
post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 15,097
"Recalls are driven by the US federal government regulatory environment and your out of control tort litigation "system" in turn driven by an equally out of control insurance industry. Ironically, a recall is not necessarily even an indication of a fault"

Lol, no comment.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
Del is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 01:17 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Johnalfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bridgewater New Jersey
Posts: 483
After owning several cars with remote fobs., I've found that the Giulia's fob is the only one that consistently accidentally triggers the panic alarm. And it's not just me; there are plenty of others on the Giulia (and Stelvio) forums experiencing the same frustration. Several owners have even taken to modifying the fob by opening and removing the nub which allows the button to complete the circuit. So the panic button is either rendered less sensitive or totally useless. Which pretty much defeats the purpose.

johnalfa

2018 Giulia TI
1988 Milano Gold Automatic (new arrival)

Previously Owned: 76 Alfetta GT, 81 Spider, 88 Milano, 89 Spider, 94 164LS (totaled 3/20/19)
Johnalfa is offline  
post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 01:29 PM
Registered User
 
ARwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Transplanted from Holland to The Armpit of New Jersey
Posts: 2,282
Garage
JCDK likes this.

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough”
Oo--V--oO There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness".
ARwrench is offline  
post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 04:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Posts: 2,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
"Recalls are driven by the US federal government regulatory environment and your out of control tort litigation "system" in turn driven by an equally out of control insurance industry. Ironically, a recall is not necessarily even an indication of a fault"

Lol, no comment.
Many recalls result from quite rare faults. The series of VIN numbered cars are recalled and inspected to find the 1% (or whatever the number is) that may have the fault found in just one vehicle. For example: my 2009 Jaguar XF was recalled for a rear seatbelt installation fault. The inspection revealed that my car was in the majority of cars that did not have the fault.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
Michael Smith is offline  
post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 11:21 PM
Registered User
 
onethumb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 915
My one and only annoyance with the car. I hit the panic button at least once a week.

Talk about a useless feature, though: has there ever been a recorded instance of someone using the panic button to actually get help or prevent a crime? Yet every freaking key fob has one.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnalfa View Post
After owning several cars with remote fobs., I've found that the Giulia's fob is the only one that consistently accidentally triggers the panic alarm. And it's not just me; there are plenty of others on the Giulia (and Stelvio) forums experiencing the same frustration. Several owners have even taken to modifying the fob by opening and removing the nub which allows the button to complete the circuit. So the panic button is either rendered less sensitive or totally useless. Which pretty much defeats the purpose.

Stacy Faught -- Alfas: 1983 GTV-6, 2018 Giulia Quadrifoglio. Non-Alfas: 1991 Corvette ZR-1
onethumb is offline  
post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 09:41 AM
PSk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 11,295
Send a message via AIM to PSk Send a message via Yahoo to PSk
Drivers locked out of keyless entry cars in bizarre episode at shopping centre

Bad tech ...
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSk is offline  
post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 15,097
Just heard in the news about a family in our area barely saved from CO poisoning due to their keyless car idling in the attached garage. Darn things are dangerous, thus the pending legislation about having the vehicle shut off after a certain amount of idling if the driver is not in the car.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
Del is online now  
post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 11:25 AM
Registered User
 
ARwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Transplanted from Holland to The Armpit of New Jersey
Posts: 2,282
Garage
Same reason they made cars so you have to step on the clutch pedal in order to start.

Have to protect the dummies from getting a Darwin award.

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough”
Oo--V--oO There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness".
ARwrench is offline  
post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 11:28 AM
PSk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 11,295
Send a message via AIM to PSk Send a message via Yahoo to PSk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
Just heard in the news about a family in our area barely saved from CO poisoning due to their keyless car idling in the attached garage. Darn things are dangerous, thus the pending legislation about having the vehicle shut off after a certain amount of idling if the driver is not in the car.
Far wiser just to go back to the key ...

People who create the legislation are just as stupid as the car designers
Pete
Del likes this.

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSk is offline  
post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 03:46 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Posts: 2,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
Just heard in the news about a family in our area barely saved from CO poisoning due to their keyless car idling in the attached garage. Darn things are dangerous, thus the pending legislation about having the vehicle shut off after a certain amount of idling if the driver is not in the car.
Problem with that story is cars new enough to have keyless ignition do not produce enough CO to kill you.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...udy_of_2_Cases

Interesting question whether the engine can keep running long enough to produce enough CO2 concentration to asphyxiate a human from oxygen displacement. CO2 isn't poisonous.

Mind you, forgetting to switch off the engine isn't related to keyless ignition. It's just as easy to leave the key on as it is to leave the car running with keyless ignition.

Well, I suppose except for the bing bing required for the USA market only.....

I experience the opposite effect now, forgetting to remove the key from the ignition after switching the engine off. I have finally found a use for the idiot binging sound.

Anyone parking a car and forgetting to switch off the engine before leaving the car should not be permitted a driver's license. It's an appalling habit, exiting a car even for a moment and leaving the engine running. If nobody is in the driver's seat the engine should be off. Period.

If you sleep in a home with any fossil fuel device inside the building and that also does not have at least one CO detector you are taking unnecessary risks. These devices are now absurdly cheap and 100% reliable. Every house with an attached garage ought to have one and you should have one on any floor that has sleeping areas. If you own a dog this is even more important for the safety of your dog, since they are much more sensitive to CO than humans. Probably why dogs don't smoke.....

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new

Last edited by Michael Smith; 03-08-2019 at 04:31 PM.
Michael Smith is offline  
post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 03:50 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Posts: 2,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARwrench View Post
Same reason they made cars so you have to step on the clutch pedal in order to start.

Have to protect the dummies from getting a Darwin award.
Yes, manual shift car should always be put in neutral and the selection double checked before any attempt is made to start the engine. Depressing the clutch is never fail safe enough.

Mind you driving in our severe winters means you also always push the clutch to reduce load on the starter. Interesting to note that drivers in warmer places tend to select neutral but not bother depressing the clutch. It's second nature up here to do both.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
Michael Smith is offline  
post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 03:53 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Posts: 2,645
Um, they all come with a metal key. The same thing could happen if you forget to replace the battery in the fob, for example. Again, an artificial problem resulting from people not reading their owner's manual and blamed on technology.

Keyless entry and keyless start are robustly reliable. Up here you are hundreds of times more likely to be locked out of your car by ice in the door lock than by a fault in a keyless entry fob.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
Michael Smith is offline  
post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 07:02 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Johnalfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bridgewater New Jersey
Posts: 483
Unfortunately the Giulia ZF 8speed is NOT easy to unlock if the engine is not running. It requires that a special bolt be inserted into a lever underneath the car. First problem is the bolt is not supplied with the car. Second problem is that insertion requires reaching under the car. Would you want to try that on the side of a busy highway? Love the Giulia; just wish more thought had been given to emergency service procedures.
Max Pershyn likes this.

johnalfa

2018 Giulia TI
1988 Milano Gold Automatic (new arrival)

Previously Owned: 76 Alfetta GT, 81 Spider, 88 Milano, 89 Spider, 94 164LS (totaled 3/20/19)
Johnalfa is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Centerline ignition wire replacement set Spud Engine Repair, Diagnostics & Rebuilding 5 07-02-2018 09:18 AM
123 Ignition - wrong ignition parts or even ignition for my 2000 GTV? Che Electrical, Chassis & Lighting 4 09-17-2017 10:31 PM
1979 Dead ignition ssheldon Electrical, Chassis & Lighting 0 04-15-2017 07:27 PM
Nology Hotwires ecohen2 Spider - 105 & 115 Series (1966-1994) 12 07-03-2009 10:32 AM
URGENT help needed for ignition switch wiring Matthew K Alfetta & GTV6 (1972-1986) 11 03-11-2007 04:49 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome