keyless ignition? - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
Del
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"Nobody can seriously suggest that a tumbler lock is more secure"

Lol, no one said that. As for security, hackers have shown us that any device or computer code designed and built by man can pretty much be hacked and/or defeated, sometimes rather easily.

As for convenience, just how more convenience must a person need? Since my pants comes with pockets (imagine that), my key fits in it quite well. Isn't that what pockets are for? Fits in nicely along with my house key and Swiss Army knife. That to me is pretty darn convenient. Only takes a second and minor finger/arm movements to take it out and insert it into the tumbler.

And then, to quote someone, "most people actually hate driving", so I guess they buy anything which will alleviate driving involved actions/thinking.


"I am sensing a pattern here though. I cannot recommend any modern car to many of the posters in this thread..... "

Now now, some of us are just not all that awed by electronic or other "new modern" geewhiz doodads like some others. Many times these doodads are just answers to questions not asked except by the "gotta have the newest thing" types. However, having said that, maybe you are somewhat correct, as many of us do not find the newest cars all that much fun to drive like we do certain older ones. We are familiar with newer cars, and we walk away, saying, "well, that just wasn't all that great, wish we had our Alfa", appreciating the more involved sensual interactions.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 03-01-2019 at 10:03 PM.
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post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
Booster cables. Or one of those Li ion booster battery units.

Also, there are ways to unlock the ZF 8 spd. Jaguar has a procedure in the owner's manual, very easy to do. The park brake just needs 12v.

Or

https://www.searchautoparts.com/moto...parking-brakes

Leaving aside the supposed emergency giving rise to this need there are a lot of ways mechanical systems can become "blocked".

I am sensing a pattern here though. I cannot recommend any modern car to many of the posters in this thread.....
Michael, the official procedure does not exist. Yes, booster cables can help. If not the way to unblock the rear wheels is to dismount the calipers.

In a case of the gearbox it's even more complicated as there is no way to unblock the gearbox. There are no procedures and no access.

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post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtle View Post
The advantage was:

No key nor fob--at all.
Completely free of clutter in your pockets.
No worries about loosing the key.
Doubtless it would confuse valet parking guys.

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Hang on I'm confused. Are you pro or against keyless entry?

Keyless entry does not mean no key fob, quite the opposite, the car detects it's on you, or close, and therefore unlocks the car. So keyless entry means you dont have to put a key into the door lock, nothing fancier than that.
Pete
Btw: one big advantage of the old key method was going to the beach. All you needed were swimming shorts with zipped up pocket. Chuck the key in and swim ... with the new fancy key fobs they cannot get wet, let alone go for a swim. So how the heck do you secure your car at the beach? Leaving the key in your bag on the beach is not an option, unless you want to walk home!

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Last edited by PSk; 03-01-2019 at 09:15 PM.
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post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post

Btw: one big advantage of the old key method was going to the beach. All you needed were swimming shorts with zipped up pocket. Chuck the key in and swim ... with the new fancy key fobs they cannot get wet, let alone go for a swim. So how the heck do you secure your car at the beach? Leaving the key in your bag on the beach is not an option, unless you want to walk home!
Yeah, I went shopping for a new truck. I have a ski boat. Found out I couldn't buy a new truck without a keyless entry system. They aren't waterproof. AAA won't tow a truck and a boat. No new truck.

Mike
1969 GTV 1750
1966 Super
San Diego, CA

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post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Hang on I'm confused. Are you pro or against keyless entry?

Keyless entry does not mean no key fob, quite the opposite, the car detects it's on you, or close, and therefore unlocks the car. So keyless entry means you dont have to put a key into the door lock, nothing fancier than that.
Pete
Btw: one big advantage of the old key method was going to the beach. All you needed were swimming shorts with zipped up pocket. Chuck the key in and swim ... with the new fancy key fobs they cannot get wet, let alone go for a swim. So how the heck do you secure your car at the beach? Leaving the key in your bag on the beach is not an option, unless you want to walk home!
You might have missed a post.
The car I made keyless was a 1952 Morris Minor Convertible.
In its day--a very good econo-car.

Bob,
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post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 09:46 PM
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post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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I always liked the Morris Minor, cute, but found that the Morris MiniMinor 850 handled much better, with the same basic engine. A ton of fun, that car. Not a convertible, though.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 03:45 AM
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There are two problems with the Giulia key fob. First is the size; the actual case is much larger than the circuit board and battery inside. Seems like Alfa could have slimmed it down quite a bit. Second is the size and sensitivity of the panic button. It's the largest button on the fob and very easy to activate unintentionally. I've set it off plenty of times in my jacket pocket just by bending over. Too bad the same engineering detail that went into the car didn't carry over to the fob.

johnalfa

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1988 Milano Gold Automatic (new arrival)

Previously Owned: 76 Alfetta GT, 81 Spider, 88 Milano, 89 Spider, 94 164LS (totaled 3/20/19)
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post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
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I always liked the Morris Minor, cute, but found that the Morris MiniMinor 850 handled much better, with the same basic engine. A ton of fun, that car. Not a convertible, though.
Both were remarkable cars in their day, both designed by Alec Issigonis.
The Morris Minor that I had was a 1952 model with the flat-head engine.
I used to call it "Old 42" because going home from university it would average 42 mph at 42 mpg fuel consumption.
That would be in Imperial gallons.

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post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 09:03 AM
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keys

Pete you do realize the key for a 156 in programmed to the body control module?
I wouldn't go swimming with it in your pocket.
Not a problem for me as I wear speedo's lol
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post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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My 850 Mini would get about the same, and could JUST do 84 mph on the flat, slightly faster car than our neighbor's Dauphine. When I bought the modified Cooper S, with 125 hp, I found that it would get the same mpg, 0 to 60 was ~5.7 sec, and could do about 105 mph, limited by the air drag and too tall stock diff ratio. If I had put in a "racier" rear end ratio diff, it should have been good for ~115 mph, so I was told. As it was, that A series engine would get revved to ~7500 rpm when I was hot on the throttle.

Completely different driving car than my 64 Giulia Sprint GT which I also had at the same time. The GT was of course, infinitely more reliable and long lived. Put ~260k miles on that wonderful car.

Meanwhile...back to the new Giulia...

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Pershyn View Post
Michael, the official procedure does not exist. Yes, booster cables can help. If not the way to unblock the rear wheels is to dismount the calipers.

In a case of the gearbox it's even more complicated as there is no way to unblock the gearbox. There are no procedures and no access.

Sent from my Z957 using Tapatalk
My quick google "research" suggests different car makers have different systems to deal with failures.

The bottom line is new cars don't fail in this way or if they do you have to tow it to a dealer anyway because no matter what you try you cannot produce a safe way to drive.

Modern cars are orders of magnitude more reliable than old cars were when they were new. Night and day different. Failures on modern cars tend to be very rare component failures totally disabling the vehicle.

For example my 2013 Subaru BRZ had only one warranty repair and zero other repairs in 6 years. The warranty repair was actually an improvement to the bodywork assembly rather than a repair. I now have the first recall notice for a valve spring defect affecting less than 1% of a discrete series of VIN numbers. Trouble is there's no way for Subaru to identify just the 1% that actually require the repair.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
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post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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"Modern cars are orders of magnitude more reliable than old cars were when they were new"

Well, THAT is a questionable statement, what with all the recalls of millions of cars each year. The newest one I've read about are the fires in the new Kias and Hyundais. Plus, the WSJ today describes a huge recall by the well loved Subaru concerning brake problems.

Never ending.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 03-02-2019 at 01:49 PM.
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post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfettaparts2 View Post
Pete you do realize the key for a 156 in programmed to the body control module?
I wouldn't go swimming with it in your pocket.
Not a problem for me as I wear speedo's lol
Dont worry, I dont use that car for our swimming trips. In fact I'm in the process of selling the only going car that has just a key ... will be a future nuisance. Maybe walking to the beach is a better option. How to you guys solve this problem?


Changing topic: this discussion has nothing to do with car reliability, it is about stupid and unnecessary modern solutions replacing things that worked well.

Btw: I do like the button on key fobs that unlocks the car. That was a practical and good idea, but keyless entry went too far.
Pete
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post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 06:48 AM
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They're called ziplock bags. Jaguar has just come out with a waterproof wristband that temporarily substitutes for the fob, allowing you to lock the fob in the boot.

The technology is there, just the demand lags behind as is often the case.

Waterproof cases have existed for at least a decade with ziplock type sealed openings to secure electronics like smartphones against water.

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White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
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