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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 07:05 AM Thread Starter
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Giulia DNA

Can anyone tell me if the Giulia 0-60 time is faster in Dynamic mode? Thanks
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 08:13 AM
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There is definitely less lag so I have to believe the acceleration is quicker. But I don't have any numbers to prove that.

Bill Maloney

1969 Giulia Super Biscione
2017 Giulia TI AWD
1965 Fiat 1500 Cabriolet
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devonlad#7 View Post
Can anyone tell me if the Giulia 0-60 time is faster in Dynamic mode? Thanks
I believe so but not by that much.

Q4 is faster than RWD 0-60.

Pedal booster I have changes the car drastically in response.

I always drive in D


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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your reply. Having a blast with my new Giulia. Last Alfa was an Alfasud 30 years ago.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2019, 07:18 AM
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Full throttle is full throttle. Dynamic mode may change the rate at which the throttle opens but putting your foot on the floor gives you wide open throttle right away.

It is possible the dynamic mode changes the shift points but I doubt it. My Jaguar redlines the automatic in each gear if your foot is on the floor regardless of dynamic mode, for example. Besides, the 8 speed is still only in second gear at 60 mph, no? Maybe third. Shift points make very very little difference on your way to 60 mph with an automatic.

One thing does make a difference: that 8 spd always starts off in second gear, even if you floor it from standstill. That slight delay while the transmission kicks down to first when it "realizes" you mean business is the only difference when you use full throttle right from start off. I tend to manually select first when stationary and intending a stop light GP start.

Btw, dynamic mode does not and cannot affect turbo lag. Modern turbos are at the limits of physics. Lag results mainly from inertia of the gasflow which is limited by Mother Nature. The days when turbo lag resulted from turbine spinup are long gone. There will always be lag but software with a dynamic mode cannot change that, it is inherent in the design of the compressor and inertia of the gases involved. What changes is the throttle ramp up. As I say, foot to the floor is foot to the floor and dynamic mode makes no difference at all to wide open throttle. Shifts are "harder" but that's just a fashion statement. Automatics are never in neutral so the shift timing is pretty much irrelevant to actual acceleration.

Technically, torque delivered to the wheel (force) divided by the mass of the vehicle (weight for simplicity, delete that sunroof) gives you acceleration. Horsepower makes no difference which is why turbo and other forced injection engines accelerate so much more quickly than naturally aspirated engines with equivalent power to weight ratios. Power doesn't accelerate, torque does.

The other limiting factor is tire grip. Modern traction control is pretty much unbeatable if it has a sport mode of some sort. Whether awd can beat rwd depends on this limiting factor. Some wheelspin (10-15% wheel rpm over speed, approximately) is required for maximum transfer of drivetrain torque to the pavement. Awd can reduce the ability to achieve wheelspin and be slower, as well as substantially heavier. Every tire/car combination is slightly different which is where the launch control comes in. Expert drivers or software engineers make the difference there. If dynamic mode allows more optimal wheelspin than normal mode then acceleration times will improve.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new

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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2019, 06:04 PM
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Thanks Michael - very helpful. I didn't necessarily mean turbo lag, but in D mode the throttle sure seems more responsive than in A mode. And Alfa's promotional material essentially says the same. I searched all over the internet and couldn't find reputable 0-60 or similar times for the various DNA modes - except for one YouTube video where in the comments they were saying 5.5 seconds in D (this is the time I see quoted by Alfa and various car reviews), 6.5 in N, and 7.5 in A. I don't know, maybe it is a placebo effect because the shifts feel different in the various modes, but it sure feels like I can accelerate faster in D mode.

Bill Maloney

1969 Giulia Super Biscione
2017 Giulia TI AWD
1965 Fiat 1500 Cabriolet
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2019, 10:06 PM
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It is possible Alfa actually slows the car down in N (it certainly does in A, ostensibly to promote fuel economy). Technically, it is not physically possible for wide open throttle acceleration to differ between D and N unless Alfa reduces the torque available when in N. That would be annoying!!!!

I know winter mode for the ZF 8 spd does reduce engine torque so maybe Alfa is playing that game in N mode as well, just to make them different.

In my Jaguar I have Sport and Drive modes. When deploying full throttle I can detect no difference in performance. At part throttle there's a big difference but that's purely down to throttle response and transmission shift pattern. Generally I find Sport a tad annoying, the throttle response is fidgety and the transmission runs in a lower gear than necessary with harder shifts. Basically, if I want the throttle to open more quickly I can easily do that without some computer software guessing for me. As for the harder shifts in Sport mode, well give me a break. I thought one of the advantages of an automatic was smooth unobtrusive shifts, just like the ones I work so hard at perfecting when shifting a manual box. There's really no excuse for a hard shift whether in an automatic or a manual box. Fashion. Like big wheels....

My Jaguar also "features" a dynamic mode which cuts out the automatic upshift at redline, a really pointless feature for road driving and of dubious value for track work in reality. Bouncing the limiter is pretty pointless in either case so there is no advantage to eliminating the automatic upshift at redline. A skilled driver shouldn't need to bounce the limiter anyway. All these automatics downshift at minimum rpm anyway, automatic upshift at redline really isn't any different.

I didn't really try the different driving modes in the Giulias I test drove. Like electronically adjustable suspension I find computerized variable engine and gearbox performance unsatisfying. I want my auto engineers to decide what drives best and just build that.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new

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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 10:49 AM
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"I thought one of the advantages of an automatic was smooth unobtrusive shifts, just like the ones I work so hard at perfecting when shifting a manual box. There's really no excuse for a hard shift whether in an automatic or a manual box. Fashion. Like big wheels...."

I like that comment. My wife's brother doesn't understand that, as he always has a jerky shift in his manual Jetta, just as he did in his earlier manual Accord. Tried to teach him how to be smoother while still being sporty (the Jetta is fun to drive enthusiastically); alas, we always get the head jerk when he drives, and he does drive otherwise like an old lady. He deserves an automatic, not the manual.

I have to admit, however, I didn't esp care for the ultra smooth never ending shifting in my father's Buick sedan with the "hydraflush" automatic. Too smooth, felt gutless even when it had a big herking engine. His Olds 442 had a more reasonable shifting automatic, even with it's big herking engine. Felt better to the seat of the pants, lol. I guess I do like to know when the shifting just takes place, but not bang bang shifting.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 05:35 AM
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This automatic is not as smooth as your think. It feels as though it's like a manual. I have done some hard pulls blipping through the 8 speeds and there is a clear change in gears, it's not a jerk but more like a definite boost in power with a slight harshness. It's a very sporty feel not buttery when your pushing it. When your driving like a granny it's much smoother but there is a distinct change in gears. I like that. This is a very fun transmission.


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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 06:49 AM
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Agree with Jason, I don't have the paddles but when the throttle is aggressively opened the shifts are noticeable but not jerky. Anyone who's driven a 24V automatic 164LS in sport mode will appreciate the Giulia.
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Previously Owned: 76 Alfetta GT, 81 Spider, 88 Milano, 89 Spider, 94 164LS (totaled 3/20/19)
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 09:39 AM
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As long as you realize those harder shifts are purely aesthetic I have no problem with some drivers liking that feel.

There is no performance difference between Sport and Normal. The shift quality is deliberately degraded to give the driver the impression of better performance.

The same is true for "active" steering effects. With electric assist power steering it is feasible to degrade the power assist to create the illusion of better handling. The rate of steering angle gain for a given steering input could also be varied were steer by wire permitted which so far it is not. At the moment such systems actually take over from the driver and steer at a different rate than the driver tries to input. BMW is the worst offender there.

Alfa Giulia employs brake by wire also susceptible to manipulation by software.

I have yet to drive a car with variable settings that works for me. Most often none of the settings on offer is correct. I prefer my steering, braking and suspension to be purely analogue. That way I know at all times who is to blame if the car fails to respond as required by my inputs. Obviously, my preference is rapidly becoming a minority opinion. In North America my preference for driving a sedan or coupe is likewise becoming very much a minority preference.

I believe the two are connected. The majority of people just do not like driving. They just like getting there.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 05:12 PM
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"I prefer my steering, braking and suspension to be purely analogue".

I had a very nice "sensual" drive in the 91S today, and enjoyed every part of it, working the the steering, the braking, and the shifting by my own hand and feet. No funny electronics to do things for me, subtracting from the physical activity.

Yeah, the electronic systems may be faster or more precise, but then again I'm not in a race, so I don't care.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 05:30 PM
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Does the DNA alter the aggressiveness of the stability control?

I hate the stock stability control maps. I remapped my my BMW's to "Euro mode" for the stability control. The stability control in M Dynamic Mode is quit entertaining on the street. The US maps is much more invasive.

The base throttle maps on E gas car are usually horrible. The curves are very nonlinear and very buffered in normal modes. I also remapped the throttle maps for $30 USD vs the stupid $300 sprint booster

Louis
2011 M3 e90 ZCP no sunroof, 2004 M3 e46 no sunroof , 1987 Milano 24v, 1987 Milano Verde

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
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"I prefer my steering, braking and suspension to be purely analogue".

I had a very nice "sensual" drive in the 91S today, and enjoyed every part of it, working the the steering, the braking, and the shifting by my own hand and feet. No funny electronics to do things for me, subtracting from the physical activity.

Yeah, the electronic systems may be faster or more precise, but then again I'm not in a race, so I don't care.
Yup, me too. Can't place the ad to sell this car. Needs a T belt and I might just put one in. My 164 is in for a new battery. I've used the original ARDONA spec AC Delco light truck battery for replacement. OEM lasted 11 years. Next one lasted 8 years. Current dead as a doornail battery is from 2009. That's impressive battery life.

I drive my 164 and I just cannot understand why so few were sold. It is a magnificent fully analog car and a delight to drive.

The Giulia has the same Alfa'ness but not the same analog feel.
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 10:05 PM
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I also tend to think that driving a manual shift (analogue) car can make you a more alert driver, as you have to pay more attention to what you are doing. Thus my preference to not use cruise control.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 02-18-2019 at 10:23 PM.
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