The cheap Giulias are coming - Page 4 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #46 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Zinhead View Post
So Luigi works for a supplier instead of Alfa directly. That does not change the fact that 300+ vehicles were shipped with the wrong fluid.
The auto supply chain is global these days. The supplier is probably not even Italian. The biggest obstacle to Giulia reliability is simply the fact that it is a clean-sheet design from a manufacturer that has not produced a similar vehicle in its recent history. That means all-new supplier contracts and an all-new supply chain. When you are putting completely new systems into place, there's much more opportunity for something to go wrong.
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post #47 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 08:59 AM
Del
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Indeed, look at the failures we have had in 164s. They are the outside supplier components, not the basic drivetrain or chassis. Bosch component failures, steering rack leaks, a/c pump clutch and bearing, fuel pump hose, radiator and heater core leaks, etc.

In general, the body has been ok, only several design faults such as the later trunk lid strut hinges, weak hand brake attachment sheet metal, maybe a couple other. I don't blame the rust problems much since in areas where salt is not used in any extent, there is no rust even in wet/rainy regions (salt was a killer on most cars of that time period and before). I don't blame the cracking/durability of the leather seats, steering wheel, and S cowl either, as people just don't take care of leather as they used to, IMO (they let the leather and thread dry out and get sun baked, untreated). I preferred the cloth interiors anyway.

Will they be as reliable as the average Toyota Camry? Maybe not, but then again people will not drive or fiddle with the Camry as they will the Giulia.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 11-29-2018 at 09:02 AM.
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post #48 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 06:50 PM
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I believe the Giulia is reliable enough to be a daily driver. But alas, no more reliable than a F30 BMW, which is high on my list for my next car. And I've read some catastrophic problems with the N20/N26 engine with their timing chain problem. So it's reliable, but not Honda/Toyota Reliable.

The problem with Alfa is with customer service, in which BMW is heads and shoulders above. I'd prefer Honda reliability for a daily driver, but a Honda of the same "class" as the Alfa would the TLX. However the drivetrain in the TLX is woefully long in the tooth. It's simply outclassed by the Alfa in every technical aspect. Not something you'd expect from the inventors of VTEC.

If and when I get a Giulia I will hopefully it will be a semi-weekend car. For a daily, I'd still have a reliable Japanese car, at least one with some fun injected in it, like a 1st TSX or S2000. The 2nd gen TSX and even the TLX has a single exhaust port, that is simply an abomination. Pathetic even. The older engines can put out a hell of a lot more power. The 90% of Japanese cars out there are woefully boring and also annoying to look at.

1987 Milano Gold 3.2 24V + JK Cams + JK headers + Autronic SM3
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post #49 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 07:40 PM
Del
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If we bought a Giulia, it could for sure be be our dd, as Alfas have always been since the late 60's. Trouble is, we already have a very good dd in the 91S, and then we also have a very good trip car in the LS. The lack of stickshift in the Giulia would probably be a drawback for fun dd. Probably ok for long trips where shifting is not required for most of the miles.

The Milano is also very good, quite reliable, but not a daily driver, just fun to drive now and then, with real shifting. My wife prefers it to the heavier feeling 164 for driving (no, I am NOT going to say the Milano is a woman's car. It just has a lighter feel to it).

Ah, the decisions one must make, sigh. Time will tell.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 12-02-2018 at 12:26 PM.
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post #50 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 02:34 PM
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Well said, and I agree. The styling is lacking a theme which IMO is very un-Italian.

Interestingly modern Ferraris and Maseratis seem to suffer the same styling misses. Is it because they don't use styling houses like Pininfarina anymore?

Thankfully you can't see it when driving so it's styling won't be a concern when your feet are dancing on the er, only 2 pedals.
Pete

Well I have the Giulia Ti Q4 with sport/perf packages in Trofeo white tri-coat with tan interior and yellow calipers and I've had at least 30 complete strangers either walk over to me in a parking lot, gas station or wherever, or have driven up next to me to ask me "what is that car" and tell me how beautiful it is. A few of them, driving Korean or Japanese cars, said nobody does it like the Italians. I've had as many if not more positive looks and comments about my Giulia than I did about my '89 Ferrari. What the hell you guys are talking about I don't know.

I have nearly 18,000 miles of perfect reliability and it is the best driving/handling car I've ever owned. So if anyone here thinks that after 2-3 years they can get a car like this for +/-$20k you can keep smoking, drinking, shooting, or dropping whatever it is you're into because y'all are out of your minds.
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post #51 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 05:51 PM
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I am very pleased that you have had a great experience with your Giulia so far. Nevertheless, there are more than a few former and present Alfa owners who think the car has no distinctive Alfa/Italian styling; however, that's why there are different styling strokes for different folks.

The eventual prices for used Giulias will be what they will be. I do not expect the previous experiences to change all that much.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #52 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 12:05 PM
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Yup, too bad the only taste most of those guys have is in their mouth.
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post #53 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 01:28 PM
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The 4c is all Alfa,and dont see too many running around the road. I have another Stelvio owner in our bldg. So in order to survive, they need to sell cars. Alfas are fun, and if you ever drive one compared with the comp, you get it. Check the reviews, same theme, fun to drive, lil quirky, well built. Love my classic alfas, but ****, I really appreciate running around in something a lil different but a whole lot more fun than the rest of the new cubes on the daily.

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
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post #54 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 02:08 PM
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" Yup, too bad the only taste most of those guys have is in their mouth"

Many of those who are not fond of the new Giulia shape have liked and owned the previous models. Same for me, since the 60's, starting with one of the best, the Sprint GT. Some models were downright great looking in their way and do demand very high prices because of that, more than anything else, the drivetrain otherwise being relatively inexpensive and available yet.

Lol, maybe like a wart, it will grow on me, but alas, not yet. Will have to get more used to it (have to get over the initial disappointment), and drive it more.

If the Giulia were prettier, with some real Italian Design House perhaps styling, it would sell more, IMO. Also doesn't help that there is not a manual option, but that's a different subject.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #55 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Del View Post
If we bought a Giulia, it could for sure be be our dd, as Alfas have always been since the late 60's. Trouble is, we already have a very good dd in the 91S, and then we also have a very good trip car in the LS. The lack of stickshift in the Giulia would probably be a drawback for fun dd. Probably ok for long trips where shifting is not required for most of the miles.

The Milano is also very good, quite reliable, but not a daily driver, just fun to drive now and then, with real shifting. My wife prefers it to the heavier feeling 164 for driving (no, I am NOT going to say the Milano is a woman's car. It just has a lighter feel to it).

Ah, the decisions one must make, sigh. Time will tell.
Youve never driven a Giulia have you?

Daily drive is a Giulia 2.0 MA, wife drives a 939 Spider in the summer and a Abarth 595 in the winter. For special sunny days we have a S2 Spider Junior in the garage.
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post #56 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by nealric View Post
The auto supply chain is global these days. The supplier is probably not even Italian. The biggest obstacle to Giulia reliability is simply the fact that it is a clean-sheet design from a manufacturer that has not produced a similar vehicle in its recent history. That means all-new supplier contracts and an all-new supply chain. When you are putting completely new systems into place, there's much more opportunity for something to go wrong.
I think that the braking system on Giulia is made by Continental, I think that is a German company?

On the reliability and rust note, we have 4 Alfa Romeos. A 1972 S2 Spider junior which is solid as a rock, compare any S2 Spider with a similar MGB of the same age, I'll let you see the rusty castle sections on the MGB. The second is a 1.6TS 147, my wifes winter car, rust free, needs a fair bit of on going maintenance, but much of that due to previous neglect. During the summer my wife drives a 939 Spider, shes had it a long time and put a lot of miles on it, its been several times to the South of France (1200 miles return or there abouts) to Italy and back and has never let us down or had any majors, only soft top issues. My car a Giulia 2.0 MA has just turned 22000 miles, I'm not going to tempt fate saying how good it is.

My first Alfa Romeo, a 159 Sportwagon with a 1.9Jtdm tractor engine did give me problems. All the items that failed (under warranty) were 2 different ECUs and a high pressure fuel pump both by Bosch and clutch/flywheel by Sachs, guess where they are all made?

My previous Brera 2.2 S was perfect, oh! It broke a road spring, no two! Err, now let me think, where are they from??

Daily drive is a Giulia 2.0 MA, wife drives a 939 Spider in the summer and a Abarth 595 in the winter. For special sunny days we have a S2 Spider Junior in the garage.

Last edited by Top Down; 12-06-2018 at 12:15 AM.
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post #57 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 02:17 PM
Del
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"Youve (sic) never driven a Giulia have you?"

Oh, indeed I have.

Yes, it handles very well, better than is needed on normal roads, but would be terrific on winding back roads, for sure. Other than that, I wondered if it was actually that much better than say my 94LS as it is set up. Well, yes, it handles better on tighter roads, and is a little faster in acceleration; but otherwise, it doesn't have a manual (my wife and I are old fashioned in liking those), has too much infotainment and other electronics, etc, for my needs or wants, and certainty doesn't sound as nice when accelerating, and, IMO, doesn't look as nice (our personal opinions of course).

Should I love and buy it just because it is "new" (some needing to buy the "newest" thing on the market, have a relative like that, lol)? No. Most likely, I will end up liking it for the handling, the general feel on the road, the rest of the product almost immaterial for desirability, almost drawbacks.

Time will tell.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 12-05-2018 at 04:42 PM.
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post #58 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 03:44 PM
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Drive the q4 with torque vectoring\
It is fun to use, yes its all electronic, but man does it pull well
im getting used to the paddle shifters, def faster, easier, kinda use when needed then forget about it when you dont
exhaust note on new ones is just meh.
catalytic is right at the head, its tucked in there
hopin on project spider 2.0 that we can play with that to bring back some of the note
doubt it will match the 6, but a little throatier would be a plus

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
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post #59 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 07:16 PM
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I was talking to a friend in the UK and he said that the Giulia is holding its value. I think you will wait for many years to buy one for under $10K.
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post #60 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 08:49 PM
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Who talked about buying one for under $10k? I figure ~$20-25k, depending on the options, etc.
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Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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