13,929 mile tire replacement - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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13,929 mile tire replacement

On our 2017 Giulia TI AWD both rear tires (stock Pirelli) had worn down to the steel belts on the inside edges. Of course we were on a road trip and the only tires available were Toyo Proxes 4+ AS. They seem OK. The Pirelli did fine last snowy winter in Montana. Be testing the Toyos soon. As a suggestion, please CHECK your REAR TIRES for inside wear.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 06:00 PM
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Is this another example of Alfa setting tire eating suspension alignments in order to achieve what they think are maximum handling characteristics? They did this with the 164s with the extreme front suspension toe out and negative camber settings, later to be modified by Alfa, to values basically already chosen by alert owners, in order to reduce very excessive front tire wear.

Something to wonder about, pay attention to, and investigate by Giulia owners. Maybe the Giulia owners will also eventually see a revised suspension alignment settings bulletin from Alfa in the near future as the "Alfa alignment chickens" start to come home to roost, so to speak.

Del

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 11-01-2018 at 01:23 PM.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 01:20 PM
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That’s how Italian roll...

I had to argue with the alignment guy to set zero toe at dealership too

Jess Liao
88 Milano Verde Gone | 95 164LS Gone | Currently Alfaless
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 04:14 PM
Del
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When I first noticed the adverse front tire tread wear on my new to me used (lease return) 91S in 94, I immediately started reducing the toe out until the wear seemed even across the tread as the mileage increased. When I finally had it checked, it turned out to be ~zero toe. Been there ever since.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-10-2018, 09:48 PM
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I have a Q4 Ti with the same tires you have with 17,000 mi on them and no adverse tire wear at all. I did get a nail in one of the tires but was able to fix it with a plug and all is good. It looks like they are about 50% worn and I've driven them hard when the opportunity presents itself. They are not babied. How and where a car is driven obviously has a direct connection to tire wear so... I don't think your problem is a common one.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-10-2018, 10:15 PM
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Btw: re the 164s with 0 toe, did you notice any difference?

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-10-2018, 10:47 PM
Del
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No, except decent front tire wear, at least 30k miles on the 91S, even further with the LS which seems to have slightly less neg camber and driven a higher percentage of highway miles, the 91S being the suburban daily driver with many more sharper turns.

I suppose that if I drove at the limit, maybe on a track, I might notice a diff in turn in or some other handling characteristics, but not when sane on the streets, even on winding back roads driven with enthusiasm.
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Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 12-18-2018 at 04:47 PM.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-18-2018, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by alfamale44 View Post
I have a Q4 Ti with the same tires you have with 17,000 mi on them and no adverse tire wear at all. I did get a nail in one of the tires but was able to fix it with a plug and all is good. It looks like they are about 50% worn and I've driven them hard when the opportunity presents itself. They are not babied. How and where a car is driven obviously has a direct connection to tire wear so... I don't think your problem is a common one.
I just picked up an 18 TI Q4 Sport Sat. My cousin has a 17 same model. I asked him if he has had any tire issues to which he replied he has 26k miles and they still look good. Made me feel better...
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 04:27 PM
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The OP either had a bad rear wheel alignment from the factory or just possibly had too much weight in the trunk. I would have made a warranty complaint had that excessive tire wear happened to me.

Edge wear is usually caused by incorrect toe, equal but excessive inner tread wear is due to excessive toe out. Camber wear is rarely equal left to right. Modern multi link rear suspensions are set to toe in under compression and rebound. There will be a short and adjustable toe link on each side and the exact setting will be critical for tire wear and handling. Toe out at the rear axle will make the car very lively especially under heavy braking when the car will feel like it is steering itself. Camber out of adjustment will not have this effect. Camber may or may not be adjustable on modern multi link, most often it is fixed.

Zero front toe on the 164 gives best tire wear at the cost of a tiny bit more understeer and slightly less sharp turn in. For very fast road driving at high cornering speed these are beneficial effects. Factory toe out gives a very responsive steering feel to what would otherwise be a fairly heavy steering feel. If you set the front toe at exactly zero or slightly toe out you get the best compromise for very fast road driving. Better for winter also. Zero toe does accentuate lift off tuck in, which I prefer especially in winter. The 164 dips her nose delicately and really hunts for the apex if you lift in a fast corner, just what you want. In fact, I had that experience just today at relatively slow speed driving to work. Last minute decision to turn hard right at the light, lift off, brake hard, turn in and wow, what a car. Slightly slippery, partially locked the front snow tires very briefly. Had to stop right away also after completing the bend. The 164 has an amazing chassis.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 07:46 PM
Del
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Just had the 91S checked for toe, and the guy said it was zero, as I've tried to keep it. However, did notice that there was just a little more outside edge of the tread wear than the inside. I like to set the toe so that I get even wear across the tread on the 16 inch Michelins, so I readjusted the toe to just a smidge toe out. We shall see how that turns out. As compared to what I thought before, I do seem to get a little less full lock tire scrub and jumping in the wet. I had mistakenly thought the reduction in toe out might give me less, but it is the other way around, as the suspension is designed originally to have a lot of neg camber and toe out. It is interesting that the new Giulia seems to have some of that full lock scrub as well, according to what some have said.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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