Alfa Giulia in quality survey - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #31 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-06-2019, 10:44 PM
Del
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"but then intrudes the bs of non-support and suddenly the pipe dream comes crashing down"

Ah, but there is always a little bad which comes with the good. You want something for nothing, lol? There is always a price to pay for such excellence, somehow/somewhere. You love the car otherwise. Gives one grit?

And think of those who cannot in any way afford such a performance car, regardless of what tribulations just may come with it. To not experience the song and dance of a tuned Alfa...

"autumnal peach meade"

Sounds delish.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #32 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-06-2019, 10:47 PM
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I see that you are having problems with your QV and the dealer is not very helpful. I can understand your problem and why you might sell your cars. I have owned Alfas for fifty years and until recently Alfa did not sell cars in the US for twenty years. I think that I should have purchased other cars but, I like driving my Alfas. I buy Infiniti and Lexus cars for my family and still drive Alfas. I would like to buy a Giulia QV Coupe when Alfa sells one in the US. I realize that new cars have many on board computers and lots of electronic features compared to cars produced five or six years ago and that can create a lot of problems. Good luck with your cars.
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post #33 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-06-2019, 10:49 PM
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If I do end up retaining this car, I would hope that someone finds a way for me to access the computer and be able to map the curves myself. Perhaps even find maps on this forum from others with cars that haven't been lobotomized by the dealership's fumbling hands. I want to give my car's soul back. It's frustrating to no end to be fully capable of such surgery but not allowed by some stupid proprietary blockade. I'm not looking to push my car to failure in the search of performance either. I simply want to be allowed to monitor and adapt to whatever comes its way as a loving owner of such a machine, to allow it to enjoy the existence for which it was designed. As I said before, most of us that enjoy what the spirit of Alfa offers also enjoy turning wrenches too.
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post #34 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-06-2019, 10:56 PM
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I've been one of those unwashed masses that couldn't afford such a thing until recently. And now that I'm here I thought that maybe the gods would smile upon me and grant me the magic. They did. For 428 glorious miles. Back to the hovel with me, amongst the grey unwashed masses, disappearing amongst my cohorts.... I'll have one hell of a story for my grandchildren (which should be arriving shortly) -lol
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post #35 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-06-2019, 11:03 PM
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Thank you Kuni. I'll be sure to faithfully report the saga of my car here on this forum. If someone were to materialize with knowledge for me to give my car its soul back, then I may remain amongst the ranks of the Alfisti. Should reality come crashing in, I'll report that too and bid all of you a sweet farewell. So much is teetering on the next few days and weeks. Should I hold onto my dream or should I let it go... that's where I'm at right now.
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post #36 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-06-2019, 11:46 PM
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Del, regarding the comparison drive, that will be a tough nut to crack. What standard will I have to show them in comparison? I deal in the realm of numbers professionally as well in engineering, and when I need to prove something I need data. That's why I'm leery to commute all the way over there to participate in such a subjective test. To them, "ugh dude, yeah, that's fast as hell", doesn't leave me with much. I'm saying my car is around 80% diminished. To them, that would be imperceptible. I'm okay trading it in saying it's perfectly fine, as that's what the dealership has stamped upon it's head, but if I end up retaining it, then I have a daunting task before me to understand why this has happened the way it has. If only I could log into the computer and have a look around....

Last edited by PatrickQV; 01-07-2019 at 06:30 AM.
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post #37 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 05:16 AM
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Romeo Ferraris in Milano is well reputated expert about your car. Try to contact him
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post #38 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 05:42 AM
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I have over 12000 miles on my QV without issues.
Thus far, the most satisfying car I have owned, but admit that I do not obsess over real and perceived imperfections.
Knowledgeable dealer support seems to be the greatest issue for the new Alfas.
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post #39 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 07:30 AM
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@PatrickQV, It seems to me that you are being a bit over-sensitive and impatient. Your tuner friend is correct that (with newer "learning" ECU's) it does take several hundred miles for the adaptations to learn your driving style. With the Alfa DNA choices, it may take those miles in each DNA setting (I don't know). What exactly did the Dealership do when your car was in for the service to repair your first problem? Some of the early Quads had fuel pick-up and pump problems that were subsequently resolved. There is an active group of Quad owners on the giuliaforum.com that may shed some light on your problems. It is unfortunate that you have had a less than satisfying experience with your Dealership. As a semi-retired professional auto technician (a few years at an Alfa Dealership, too) I know (and most likely you do as well) that the store is only as good as their employees. You may find information on the giuliaforum that directs you to a better Dealership. I own an early build 2018 Q4 and have purchased the Eurocompulsion ECU Tune. I am very happy with the results and the support. They advertise cloned ECU's for the Quad. Perhaps they can be of assistance with your ECU questions.
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ALFA ANDY
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post #40 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by PatrickQV View Post
What's driving me away from Alfa is the complete hassle the service side of the equation has been. I'm either ignored, or get non answers and non resolutions. Nobody seems to be excited or care about the product on the other side of the dealership. Perhaps that's because their time is measured in minutes while the car is under warranty. They're not paid to care, so they don't.
Dealership service departments is where many mechanics start their careers. The way they get paid encourages them to rush, and there is high turn over. The result is you end up with mostly inexperienced techs, and the ones that shouldn't even be in the profession haven't been weeded out yet. Any given dealership probably only has one or two good techs, and they are overworked.

This isn't something unique to Alfa; it's a problem for pretty much every marque. Some like Toyota have implemented processes that mitigate these issues fairly well, however... FIAT and Alfa have never understood how to implement a US dealership network, and I don't really expect them to do better this time around.


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I have considered the legal option but before I do, I require data. Such data is obtained on a hydraulically linked dynamometer. Such dynamometers are rare. The Alfa will limit itself if it realizes the front wheels aren't turning at the same rate as the rear wheels, and with the RWD Quadrifoglio, such a dyno is mandatory. If my trade-in offer is beyond my acceptable loss criteria, and I find no buyers on the private sale market which is most likely, then I may stick to my guns and find a legal resolution to this mess. But again I digress, I need data before I have anything upon which to stand on.
A 4 wheel dyno doesn't hurt, but it's not necessary. From what I've heard these cars vary a lot in their performance; probably due to the semi-hand built nature of them. Comparing two cars won't be enough to show a trend.

Another problem is a dyno can definitely show the difference in curves between two cars, but I suspect most of the difference you're feeling would be in throttle response/behavior, mid range performance, and "other stuff". There's so much to the overall driving experience that a dyno can't show.

I just don't want you to spend a bunch of money on dyno testing and be disappointed.
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post #41 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 05:32 PM
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Andylarry, yes you are correct. My frustration does come out as over-sensitive and impatient. This issue happened early last summer and after this many months later with nothing resolved or anyone to help, I'm just left to wonder. It's almost surreal. This forum has really been wonderful at allowing me to reconsider my stance on all of this.
I did document my saga on the giuliaforums.com but nobody responded to it so I went in search of another forum (this one). I was a new member so I couldn't post a new thread yet either. The involvement by you and others on this thread has really helped to bolster my resolve to try and stick with it. Thank you.
My car is a 2018 as well, and the guys at the dealership were convinced I ran my car out of fuel which wasn't the case. I went down a long left curve at acceleration with between 1/4 and 1/3 tank. So the fuel pump and pickup issue may be the culprit in my car. How do I test for this? Did I damage my fuel pump during this episode, which would be causing the muted performance now? It would fit...

Last edited by PatrickQV; 01-07-2019 at 05:47 PM.
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post #42 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 05:44 PM
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DanB, you are most correct. I would spend money on a diagnostic (laptop based) tool that would really allow me to analyze my car(s). I wish I had a baseline dataset from when it was new so I could actually see what's going on. A Dyno test would be fun but you're again correct with your assessment. I would like to know if I am substantially below 505hp however. A "Mustang" dyno has losses which will give you a diminished result but figuring for that loss, I could still know if my car is substantially below where it should be.
What I'm feeling, or rather not feeling and hearing is the assertiveness and snarl it had when new. Everything seems just a bit muted now. As if you turned the treble way down on your sound system. The high end is gone, note wise. And it was that snarl that I really enjoyed once the engine hit the power band. The power band seems a bit muddy now and I can only speculate as to why.
Considering the poor situation at the dealerships, I'm realizing my real venue for solutions are you guys in the forum, for which I am grateful.

Last edited by PatrickQV; 01-07-2019 at 05:49 PM.
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post #43 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 05:59 PM
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Here's the link to my thread in giuliaforums.com last year. Guess I was mistaken about the mileage last night. It happened at 415 miles. Not that it matters, I just like to be accurate.

https://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/4...tml#post667718
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post #44 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 06:09 PM
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As well, maybe you are getting more used to the performance, and it is not as totally startling as it first seemed the first time you drove it. That happened with my new to me 91 164S (of course, no comparison in performance but still...). I was surprised and overjoyed at the performance of it compared to the 86 GTV6 I had been driving. My wife said it put the big grin on my face that I had lost in the GTV6. Now rest assured it still fun to drive, having put on 150k miles on it as the DD since I bought it in 94, but that sense of awe is now loooong gone as I have become very used to what it does. I just enjoy what it can do.

Same thing happened when I bought the 94LS with the Q runners, Wow, does it go compared to the S, but now I am as well more used to it's performance, however enjoyable it truly is to drive. Just something more to consider. Driving a car, esp a performance car, is very subjective and changeable. It's part of being human.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 01-07-2019 at 06:15 PM.
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post #45 of 61 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 06:11 PM
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Have you checked out the Giulia forum (giuliaforms) [cannot post links because I don't have enough posts-stupido]
Your issues sounds familiar and you may find how others who have solved their problems - often a software update is required.
That said, there are instances where dealers have failed to provide service worthy of the marque.

You my also wish to discuss your issues with Eurocompulsion.com . They sell an ecu upgrade and are a reliable, reputable vendor of Alfa accessories.
They do their own tunes, have an appropriate dyno and are familiar with Giulia internals.

I have owned Alfas in the past and find the Giulia QV reflects the essence of Alfa with modern enhancements. Just today I completed a 250 mile trip in rural and urban settings to include a race mode blast though express lane tunnels (glorious noise). Made me forget the purpose of the trip was to see a cardiologist.
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