Terrible experience with 2018 Giulia Quadrifoglio - Page 4 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #46 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-07-2018, 06:21 AM
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This is incorrect information. Synthetic oil does not break down. Ever, as far as anyone can tell. Oil changes are required when the filter becomes full of particulate contaminants.

Water condensation in the oil is only a problem if the car owner fails to drive for long enough to heat the oil to 100C so the water can evaporate. At my elevation 95C is high enough. The more oil in the dump the worse this problem gets. Alfa engines have far too much oil in their sumps as do Porsche, for normal city driving.

Modern engines cannot use much oil or will not comply with emissions requirements. Electronic oil level sensor systems are more reliable and accurate than a physical dipstick and far more convenient for the driver. It won't be long before they are accurate enough to block the starter from operating if low oil level is detected when you turn the key. As of now these systems are grafted onto sumps containing far more oil then is necessary, which of course is Porsche's problem.
I've written owner's manual oil requirements for major OEMs - listen to your owner's manual, not people on the internet. OEMs don't tend to make suggestions that lead to damage their engines. So much testing goes into anything that they suggest - the change interval, the oil formulation etc.

It's rare but possible to 'break' a synthetic, if you're referring to degradation of viscosity. Typically the additive package loses its ability to sequester small particles, or the anti-corrosion properties (Total acid number, total base number) are lost, which leads to need for change. Fuel and water dilution are very rare issues, and short trips aren't usually enough to lead to sludging from moisture alone.

And sump capacity helps, despite the extra warm-up required to heat all of the oil. At one OEM, we added a quart of oil to the pan to extend service interval. Validated the effects. Had to recalibrate the dipstick - would have been nice to have an electronic dipstick!
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post #47 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-07-2018, 06:26 AM
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To the OP - I would write to the leaders of FCA. Your experience is unacceptable.

It's pretty easy to email people at large companies. For example, at Alfa (FCA), it would be [email protected]. Look up the name of the north american leader and you've got your contact.

Graham
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post #48 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-07-2018, 01:52 PM
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After 20 years of driving every single model of 105's available, in 1998 I lashed out and purchased a brand new 916 Alfa Spider... one of the first in the country!! On the way home from picking up my BRAND NEW Spider, not more than 5 KM from the dealership, it started raining. Within a couple of minutes I had water dripping onto my right leg. Got home soaked.

Rang the dealer and told them what had happened and booked a time to take it back.

Dropped off the car and picked it up later that afternoon. They handed me a bill for nearly $2000!!! I asked why? The adjustment of the soft-top is not covered by warranty because it is subject to wear and tear like tyres and brakes pads!!

After paying $65,000 (back in 1998) at this dealer, they refused to give me the keys until the bill was paid. No wonder they are universally referred to as the "Stealership".

That was the last new Alfa I purchased, and to this day have no desire to own a new Alfa.

Hence the name.... Backto105!!
That is an amazing and crazy story. Sorry but what wankers ... not covered by warranty, wear and tear ... OMG

Surely Alfa Romeo has some control over the idiots that become their dealers?
Pete

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post #49 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-07-2018, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fourmotioneer View Post
I've written owner's manual oil requirements for major OEMs - listen to your owner's manual, not people on the internet. OEMs don't tend to make suggestions that lead to damage their engines. So much testing goes into anything that they suggest - the change interval, the oil formulation etc.

It's rare but possible to 'break' a synthetic, if you're referring to degradation of viscosity. Typically the additive package loses its ability to sequester small particles, or the anti-corrosion properties (Total acid number, total base number) are lost, which leads to need for change. Fuel and water dilution are very rare issues, and short trips aren't usually enough to lead to sludging from moisture alone.

And sump capacity helps, despite the extra warm-up required to heat all of the oil. At one OEM, we added a quart of oil to the pan to extend service interval. Validated the effects. Had to recalibrate the dipstick - would have been nice to have an electronic dipstick!
My source on Porsche dropping the 10,000 mile/one year oil changes and going back to 5000 mile/6 month oil changes is Porsche of North America. As is the reason. Short trips do not allow the engine to reach a temperature and for a duration to burn off the accumulated water that forms. Water in areas of the engine not designed for it is not a good thing. Oil (even synthetic) and water do not mix. All this was also confirmed by one of the top indie Porsche engine builders in the world, who is also a paid consultant to Porsche as well as a leader of multiple Porsche Le Mans efforts. There is no logical reason for one year oil changes except to satisfy politicians who want to legislate auto maintenance as well as manufacturing. Maybe in lawn mowers...but that's about it.
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post #50 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-07-2018, 04:33 PM
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Sorry to hear about your troubles. It sounds like things needed to be handled better by both the dealer and corporate. I had some minor glitches with my ‘18 QV (1700 miles currently). Alfa assigned a caseworker who would call me every few days, and Fred Nielsen at Scottsdale Alfa Romeo was superb. The two also spoke to each other. On two occasions the work was complete ahead of schedule. This dealership rolls out the red carpet for QV owners. If it’s any consolation, these are high performance cars and even many new Ferrari and BMW M owners go through similar travails.
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post #51 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-07-2018, 04:56 PM
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So who does your service if not a dealer? I'm not sure any of the independents in the Los Angeles area have had the chance to learn the cars.
I should be clear---by all means take it to a dealer for service, just not THAT dealer

On a similar note, I would bet that Stewart at APC has had a chance to get under these cars already.

Stacy Faught -- Alfas: 1983 GTV-6, 2018 Giulia Quadrifoglio. Non-Alfas: 1991 Corvette ZR-1
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post #52 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-07-2018, 09:07 PM
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Tell me what you want the car for---It is not a show car, it is set up to be very fast and maneuverable. It has no back seat and has a full cage---your kind of car?

'84 GTV-6 (modified for track)
'74 Spider (almost new)
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post #53 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-07-2018, 09:10 PM
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Good name!

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post #54 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 12:05 PM
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We bought my wife the Guilia (not the 505 hp Q car). It's been in the shop about 5 times for the "start/stop" which is a PITA, but something we were prepared for as long-time Alfa owners (this is the 4th in 20 years, and the 5th if counting the 1600 Veloce I bought after college), and also as someone who has bought 'first-year' models in the past. We expected trouble, and we got it (well, some).

When the dealer in LA (not mentioning location/name) finally got tired of towing the car to LA from Santa Barbara (and back again), I called the national Alfa Romeo Customer Service desk. They were MUCH more accommodating and arranged the tow, followed up during the service(s), etc. I don't know that you would have the same experience, but my sense is that they would CERTAINLY want to know what kind of experience you have had, would probably have arranged a loaner or rental car (they did that for us on more than one occasion).

My experience with the national service desk was that they were 'on it' in terms of (at least) trying to keep me happy as a new owner. I also had the distinct impression that the national desk was collecting data on user experiences - smart move.

BTW - the car just needed an eprom flash - well several - there was never anything mechanically wrong with the car (no parts needed replacement, etc.). I would be shocked to learn that your car was really a lemon from the factory; manufacturing QC these days is 5000% better than in the 70's and 80's when the Alfa brand reputation suffered the biggest 'hits' through poor manufacturing and quality control.

I hope this all works out for you!
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post #55 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 02:59 PM
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My wife and I went to look at the Stelvio in Santa Monica when her Lexus lease was coming due. I would never have expected to see such a poor facility in this day and age. It was just like I remember it back in the 80s and 90s, and we all know what happened then.
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post #56 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 03:43 PM
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Remember the state of Alfa repair shops in the 70's as well. Our experience in Washington, DC, in the late 70's was abysmal/dreadful, to say the least. One shop (in maybe Falls Church?) told us that if we opened the hood of our new 78 Alfetta GT we would void the warranty, that only they were authorized to do that. Another in Anacostia (we called them "Rosanadana, lol) knew something about Alfas of the 50's and 60's but nothing about the Alfetta series, esp those with the double ignition points. At least the Seattle/Tacoma area had excellent mechanics from the 60's on (Bellevue, nada).


Sounds like the national reps at least (if not the factory) for Alfa should be contacted for sure with the Quad troubles. When I had trouble with getting parts for my 64 Sprint GT (the seat back pivot bolts, being told I would have to buy all new front seats, lol), I finally had to send a telegram directly to the factory to get help. They sent me a parts catalog for that car and told me to deal only with them in Italy, they evidently recognizing that some dealers were indeed terrible.
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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

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post #57 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 04:06 PM
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Being in the independent service industry for 30 plus years servicing Alfa Romeo among other Italian marques. It was often that I would be involved with the dealers parts department.
I must say that I predicted this would happen. After seeing them come from dealerships at gas stations in my small town to big stores in the late 80's to leaving in 1995 to Announcing several times and trying a comeback that didn't happen until now. Finally a small line of cars and market that works, and its the human element that fails. It is sad to say that in my mind it seems that FCA has failed again.
They do not properly train everyone in the dealerships. This goes to everyone at the store, from MR Genius, to the tech who has decided to dismantle your new Quad chasing a ghost and not limited to but including the parts guy/girl who had the task of deciphering a shoddy parts book from an italian translation just like in 1975. Where is the Owner of the dealership??? Where is the customer service??? My friend bought a new Maser cabriolet for his wife 1.5 years ago. Not a cheap car. Twice the cost of a new Quad, The car ate the inside of the tire because of the toe-out until it blew and took the fender and wheel with it. Not to mention that the car had been back 5 times for Navi that reads only in Italian and warning bells and whistles that say DO NOT drive your car. I get that the car is really low and the tread ware is not easily seen at a glance, but there must be some intelligent diagnostics's that go on and communication with the engineering people before what happened to you happened.. I want a new Giulia Soooo bad and after selling 4 cars from my 11 car collection can afford to go buy one, but ...................... I wish you luck brother piston head. Be professional and thats all you can do really. I just had the feeling that Alfa would not be ready for the US market again. I hope this is isolated and things move forward.
RML
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post #58 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 07:19 PM
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I just had the feeling that Alfa would not be ready for the US market again. I hope this is isolated and things move forward.
RML
Not sure they are ready for any market. They appear to be just like Ducati, ie. if you are lucky you get a good one, but if you have issues you are ****ed because nobody knows how to fix them, and parts take half a life time to arrive.

I'm an Alfista through and through but like 95% of us, we never buy new Alfas. Not saying we don't like the new stuff, but we have become wise over the years and you buy second hand after they have devalued and most importantly the first owner or two have sorted any problems out.
Pete
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post #59 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 11:02 PM
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...."Not saying we don't like the new stuff, but we have become wise over the years and you buy second hand after they have devalued and most importantly the first owner or two have sorted any problems out"....

EXACTLY!!
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post #60 of 172 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 06:43 AM
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How does one go about manufacturing only second hand cars?
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