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No dipstick?

42K views 163 replies 29 participants last post by  Del 
#1 ·
Reading my manual I saw that there is no dipstick for monitoring oil levels.
It is done electronically and available on the dashboard. That makes sense and was a long time coming.
 
#3 ·
New type emissions compliant engines aren't allowed to burn any oil so they don't.

Electronic dipsticks are failsafe in that they indicate on the dash when they aren't able to check oil level. The technology is very reliable and very accurate.
 
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#6 · (Edited)
"New type emissions compliant engines aren't allowed to burn any oil so they don't"

Uh huh. We shall see. If they don't burn it, will engine seals last forever, so no leaks? I don't think so.

Why bother to even put another light on the dash if it will never be used? If it comes on, I suppose you are to drive to a dealer to add more oil, or is there a place to even add oil?
 
#18 ·
Along with the electronic oil level sensor you usually get "from the top" servicing. There is a "drain" tube through which old oil is extracted. It is feasible to check oil level by inserting a dipstick down this tube. The oil filter (usually now an old fashioned cartridge, not metal spin on) is in a canister somewhere at the top of the engine as is an oil filler tube.

And no, engines won't leak oil either.
 
#7 ·
Mercedes has been using the system since the early 2000's. Works fine.
 
#9 ·
The 2.9L TT V6 in the Quadrifoglio is a compromise; it has the electronic sensor but also has a dipstick.

I've checked once or twice and they seem perfectly synced to each other - when the electronic sensor showed one bar below full the dipstick was also just a little bit below the top marking.
 
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#11 ·
My Audi Q5 2.0T has a tube for use by the dealership but no dipstick. Through some investigation, I figured out that there is an Audi part number for a dipstick, but the dealer parts department doesn’t have knowledge of it.

At first I asked them if I could order a dipstick (after the electronic sensor failed), they said that there was no such thing. But when I figured out the part number (from an online Audi forum), I called the dealer and asked for that part number. They said the warehouse had them in stock. Interestingly, they said that the part number was not associated with any vehicle.
 
#12 ·
If the Audi one is like the Mercedes one. Its just an extra long rod with measurements one it. You then have a sheet with the different engine classes that tells you what number should be when full. It can not be left in the tube as it doesn't seal. Mercedes also uses the same rod for the trans dipstick.

To find it for Mercedes it actually in their special tool catalog.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Thats good that BMW did that. Mercedes doesn't give you that option.
 
#16 ·
To get back to the Giulia, the lack of a dipstick is fine as long as the sensors are all working properly -- Just like the Giulia's lack of a spare tire is fine as long as you don't have a problem with any of the four tires it does have. But my experience with my Audi is that the sensors don't always work.
 
#20 ·
No dipstick? This may seem ok to some folks, but having been in the trade I know that many a main dealer "forgets" to change to oil and filter, and the only way of checking this is what can be seen on the dipstick after a service. I have been the victim of this by two main dealers of two prestige European car makes. Proof of oil change is vital, especially with a 2 litre 280 bhp high performance engine!
 
#21 ·
You cannot tell from a dipstick whether engine oil has been changed. You certainly can't tell if the filter has.

Modern engines using synthetic oil do not actually wear out the oil. The limit on service intervals is actually governed by the filter capacity. Modern engines wear so slowly that even filters last longer than the specified service interval.

Number one reason to change the oil nowadays is water contamination due yo heat cycling in humid conditions particularly during or after a cold winter.

If you insist on checking this yourself you can open the filter canister on some engines, like BMW, where the filter is a top change item. Also, engines are often equipped for top of engine vacuum removal of oil so it is still possible to run a piece of trimmer "string " down the vacuum tube to secure a very small oil sample. You can also access the oil through the filler cap, wherever that might be.

I don't know what arrangements Alfa makes for filters or removal of old oil.
 
#22 ·
#23 ·
Modern cars don't burn oil, yeah right

Lets see Toyota and subaru are currently having a recall due to excessive oil consumption on the BRZ

Subaru's are notorious for oil consumption with their flat 4 engines

BMW and Audi state that it is normal to consume 1 quart every 750 to 1000 miles.

On the Mini by BMW if you let it run just a couple of qts low it will ruin the engine.

And yes you can absolutely tell if your oil has been changed by looking at the dipstick. If you can't tell you probably should not be opening the hood.
 
#24 ·
The BRZ / GT86 recall has nothing to do with oil consumption. Less than 1% of a wide range of Subaru 2.0 engines, not confined to the BRZ version, have been suspected of inner valve spring failure. Actual failure rates are infinitesimally small. It's an American thing.

Some Subaru 2.0 engines were assembled with defective oil control rings which Subaru repaired.

Mini specified a 24 month oil change interval for their Brazilian made Chrysler engines. They don't use those any longer. There was a version of BMW engine fitted which had problems but BMW redesigned that engine. Oil consumption was a symptom and not a cause.

But, whatever. You think you can tell the condition of oil from the dipstick. Glad you're not servicing my cars.
 
#25 ·
The electronic dipstick were used on Milano cars and also have dipsticks. I prefer having a dipstick so I can check oil level rather than having only an electronic device. I know that new cars burn very little oil but, oil consumption increases with mileage due to engine wear.
 
#26 ·
Michael, I have been mechanicking for 50 years and also spent some time working in special oil filtration systems. Some of what you write is true, but the dipstick is always the primary method of checking for oil having been changed, and handling marks or oil residue on the filter housing is absolute in telling whether that component has been changed or not. Modern synthetic oils are excellent in longevity, and in fact I have done 3,500 miles around Europe last year in my 1953 Austin Healey, using only 1 litre of oil on that journey, unheard of with normal multigrade oils, although I had previously rebuilt that engine very carefully. However, even synthetic oils have a life and it's the vital additives that wear. These are largely there for agglomeration of carbon and other particles, and account for the lack of residue in the sump when the oil is drained. Carbon is a wear factor in engines and is dealt with properly by changing the oil. Water in the oil is a minor factor in modern engines. Those who think that synthetic oil never needs changing are welcome to that theory!
 
#27 · (Edited)
With respect to the subject, I know just two things, that fresh/changed oil is clear looking as compared to used oil which has turned dark due to the particles held in suspension by the detergent additives (even with the 94LS which uses zero oil), and that the electronic oil level sensors in all our own Alfas which had them have failed. It works for me to use a real manually operated dipstick once in a while. I'm not that lazy.

The newest cars, maybe yes theoretically, but in real life, realistically, anything designed/made by man can find a way to go astray and/or fail. It is an given. Nothing is absolute except death and the end of the universe.
 
#29 ·
Colour of fresh engine oil is very variable. Oil responds to heat cycling. The dark colour is not due to particles as those are removed by the filter. The colour of freshly changed engine oil can change significantly on the very first start up depending on how much old oil the engine retains after a change. And so on.

Water condensation in the crankcase contamination from blowby gas is the number 1 reason for annual oil changes regardless of mileage.

This risk is much higher in winter climates especially if you also get high humidity in winter and especially if the car is garaged in a heated space.

The dipstick tells you the measured oil level assuming it is used correctly. Generally speaking you need to observe a number of pre-conditions before you can rely on a dipstick.

Electronic oil level indicators using sonar or other boundary layer sensors are more reliable and accurate than physical dipsticks, not to mention much easier and more convenient to use. If the pre-conditions are not met the instrument panel tells you so and often tells you what those conditions are or refers you explicitly to the handbook.

There's no reason to regret the absence of a dipstick.
 
#30 ·
The dipstick tells you the measured oil level assuming it is used correctly. Generally speaking you need to observe a number of pre-conditions before you can rely on a dipstick.

Electronic oil level indicators using sonar or other boundary layer sensors are more reliable and accurate than physical dipsticks, not to mention much easier and more convenient to use. If the pre-conditions are not met the instrument panel tells you so and often tells you what those conditions are or refers you explicitly to the handbook.
More reliable? Oil level sensors fail pretty commonly. I'm not saying that they're unreliable but they can and do fail. I've never heard of a dipstick failing. I've been using dipsticks for 30 years and have never had one fail and have never had one not give me at least a good "ballpark" oil level.

Saying that the dipstick is a technology that simply doesn't work is utter bollocks.
 
#31 ·
When I was a young instrumentation engineer in 1975 the old works manager told me that the only instruments that he trusted where a dip stick and a mercury in glass thermometer. They certainly have fewer and better understood failure modes than most instruments.
 
#33 ·
"My reliability point relates to the user rather than the measurement device.

It is surprising how easily an incorrect reading can be observed on an ordinary dip stick."

I agree with you here. Although for those who regularly check their dip stick are those who typically know how to read it. I guess those who incorrectly read it are dip sticks.

I still prefer a dipstick.
 
#34 · (Edited)
All I know is that the electric dipsticks in my Alfas have all failed. Now, maybe the newer ones are better, but still, you just CANNOT end up with a mechanical dip stick which will fail on you, and the reading one gets from them is probably withing 1/4 qt at worst. Good enough for the engine for sure, and for all of us who are not anal about new electronic doodads, just because they are new. They needn't be all that precise (kind of like trying to get 4 or 5 places on a slide rule, you could always tell who was the newbie, lol).
 
#35 ·
All I know is that the electric dipsticks on my Alfas have all failed. Now, maybe the newer ones are better, but still, you just cannot end up with a defective mechanical dip stick, and the reading one gets from them is probably withing 1/4 qt at worst. Good enough for the engine, and for all of us who are not anal about new electronic doodads, just because they are new.
I will let you know if mine fails. My 164 failed 1 time in 22 years. I replaced it and it still works fine ever since. I still rather have simplistic ways to check crucial things like oil level on a motor. Unless digital is becoming more reliable than analog (not really) then I can see moving towards all this but otherwise give me a **** dipstick.
 
#37 · (Edited)
I remember some older cars which would shut the engine off if the electric oil level sensor read low for one reason or another. Seem to remember one was an old Chrysler of some sort my boss had, and another was the infamous Vega, owned by a friend. They had steep driveways, and they could end up with an engine which would not start, being maybe a qt low. They didn't know about this function, and thought maybe they needed an engine rebuild, not being car people, lol.

Electric dip sticks are just not necessary in real life. If any engine is soo sensitive to oil level that misreading a mechanical dip stick by 1/4 qt or so makes or breaks the engine, I want absolutely nothing to do with it.

It's just "new product" foolishness.
 
#39 ·
Electronic? Really, you know what I said, electric. And I do not believe that newer "electronic" versions would be any more reliable, being more complicated, with an accuracy which is not necessary in the real world.

The all too famous Porsche brand also used the same type of high silicon content linerless engines in several models. Just because GM couldn't get it right... however, yes, the Vegas was a huge joke on the automotive world. Haven't seen one in many years now. No one keeping one as a classic car, insured by maybe Hagerty, lol?
 
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