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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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Giulia

I picked up a new giulia a few weeks ago. About 2000 miles in and so far so good. I've noticed that the hvac system isn't so good, it seems to constantly blow cold air long after the temp has been reached in the cabin. I also noticed the ent system is really slow at startup. It takes more than a minute before he controls will operate the radio and change the channel. Anyone else have that? It also crashes on me once when driving. Entire ent system restarted while I was driving.

Shifts are a bit hard when cold too. But my ford did that, bit completely unusual.

But overall happy, programming issues are normal for new models. I got the white tricoat, awd, sport package etc.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 04:05 PM
Del
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Alfa is using the Microsoft sales program, letting the buyer be the Beta tester.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 11-05-2017 at 04:47 PM.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2017, 11:28 PM
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I bought a pretty early model Ti and have had no problems at all, 7000 miles
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 10:24 PM
Del
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So, how do people feel about the driving/handling/feel between the rear wheel drive and the all wheel drive versions? If I were to buy one (I'm not until the manual arrives, lol), I think I would opt for the rear wheel drive version for almost all driving conditions.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2017, 07:19 AM
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The awd system is the same ZF magna steyr developed system that is an add on to ZF 8 spd automatics, it hangs off the output end.

Jaguar and BMW both use the same system but ZF lets each maker reprogram its software to suit a particular application. Both Jaguar and BMW program theirs to be 100% rwd unless and until the wheel speed sensors (the entire stability system actually) inform the transmission controller that torque is needed to go to the front wheels. The stability control also directs torque left and right for complete individual wheel torque control.

Alfa presumably has their own version of the software. I have driven it but not in slippery conditions. The system "knows" to have up to 10% of available torque for transmission to the front wheels right off the start but rapidly reduces or even eliminates that torque transfer as no wheelspin is detected. In winter setting the initial torque split is based at 70% rear 30% front as a minimum split. In any case up to 100% of available torque can be directed to only one wheel if only one wheel can utilize any torque. No transfer case as such, a morse chain drive transfers power to a multiplate wet clutchpack which actually transmits the programmed torque to the front prop shaft.

The best thing is the computers do all the work for the driver. One is unaware of the awd effect unless very observant (which I am of course so I can inform you all).

There are two drawbacks: around 100kg of extra weight for a device one hardly ever uses and slight fuel economy penalty resulting from this extra weight and a very small increase in power absorption by the system even when idling.

If you routinely drive in snow or heavy rain I highly recommend buying the awd version. For warm and mostly dry conditions you are wasting money. The chassis dynamics are totally unaffected in dry condions except for acceleration capability. The traction effects improve acceleration but the added weight slows the car down.

GKN has a nifty system which functions similarly for fwd applications (the new Ford Focus RS has this system but do does the lowly Escape, different software). GKN also eliminates the transfer case part of the awd gubbins entirely using only the clutch pack portion to transmit the drive.

These systems are unbelievably good and completely automatic. Seamless driving experience you literally do not notice the awd effects unless you are exceptionally observant. Adds a whole new dimension to driving pleasure.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new

Last edited by Michael Smith; 12-08-2017 at 07:33 AM.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2017, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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i really like the AWD. getting about 27 Mpg...and was snowy here yesterday. car felt sure footed.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2017, 10:44 AM
Del
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Seems like the sense of stability it could create would be offset by the added weight and complexity of the all wheel system for otherwise sporty driving and overall reliability. Costs more of course as well, but I agree, would be an asset for those areas of heavy snow or very slick icy roads, although it doesn't help you stop any better. Neighbor learned that the hard way, when he took off in his four wheel drive SUV in the snow, T-boning a transit bus, as he slid down a hill to a stop at an arterial.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2017, 10:47 AM
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My 156v6 is getting 35mpg (UK) which apparently is 29mpg (US), doesn't sound like there has been much progress. Admittedly most of it's work and back trip is open road driving

I'm super glad I never grew up in a place that snows. I feel for you guys.
Pete

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156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2017, 11:28 AM
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"I'm super glad I never grew up in a place that snows"

Hah, you don't know what you are missing. Of course, you could do a visit to the South Island. Lots of snow further south. Actually, snow can be quite pretty and romantic, as long as you don't have to drive much in it, although, sometimes that can be fun as well, even with two wheel drive. My best snow car was my 62 Morris MiniMinor 850. That car could go anywhere. The Alfas have never been too bad, the best has been the 91 164S, and the worst, the GTV6s.

We don't get much snow in Seattle at all, maybe every 6-7 years for anything worth talking about. The snow we do get is usually washed away by the rains rather quickly, maybe within the same day, or sometimes a week or so. The area is hilly, so it does depend on where you are. Global climate change has reduced the amount and frequency of our local snow quite a bit, much less than when I was growing up in the 40s and 50s, being able to go sledding in the neighborhoods then for a couple of weeks pretty much every winter.

The mountains are only about an hour or so away, though, so there is lots of skiing and snow boarding there, day and night. Maybe the best of both worlds.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 12-08-2017 at 11:31 AM.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2017, 03:36 PM
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It takes more than a minute before he controls will operate the radio and change the channel. Anyone else have that? It also crashes on me once when driving. Entire ent system restarted while I was driving.
It sounds like you have pretty much the same spec as mine, delivered in June - Trofeo White, AWD, Sport. I now have 6300 miles and am enjoying it, mostly.

My entertainment system has spontaneously rebooted itself three or four times now but not for the last month or two. The dealer couldn't identify the problem but documented it for future reference. Start-up takes maybe 30-45 seconds. No big deal. "They all do that," including the BMW I traded for the Alfa.

For the first month or so, the entertainment system was really squirrely. Upon start-up it would select a preset radio station different from the one I was listening to previously and one night the radio wouldn't play above a whisper until my wife opened the passenger door at home. Then the radio came on at full volume. Fortunately, those issues have gone away.

My first oil change at 6200 miles came with three or four software updates, including one for the transmission programming. They said the service indicator can't be reset until the car reaches 10,000 miles. I'll need to take the car back in to allow the tech to perform the reset. Very strange and hard to believe. In fact I don't, and queried Alfa Romeo about it. Waiting for an answer.

Bob A.
Kenosha, WI
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2017, 04:05 PM
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My 156v6 is getting 35mpg (UK) which apparently is 29mpg (US), doesn't sound like there has been much progress. Admittedly most of it's work and back trip is open road driving

I'm super glad I never grew up in a place that snows. I feel for you guys.
Pete
I bought a new Giulia (Super) in 1968. A couple of years later put in 10:1 pistons and it was, in the day, a relatively quick car.
Cruising at 60 mph used 36 MPG (Imperial).

Was skiing a lot at Whistler so there was a lot of rain and snow driving. At slow speeds in the deep it sure needed a limited slip.

Otherwise a great car.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-09-2017, 10:36 AM
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I had the same problem with my Giulia exactly, in terms of the heating. Turned out the valve that routed coolant to the heater core was totally blocked with crystallized crud. Renewing the heater was a nightmare (serious contortions are required) and at the end of it, while the heater produced heat, it also leaked. Not sure what the problem was -- a loose connection between the hose and the new valve, or a leak in the heater core. Just saying -- if you decide to undertake that job, make sure the heater core is ship shape before you reinstall it.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-09-2017, 12:49 PM
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Seems like the sense of stability it could create would be offset by the added weight and complexity of the all wheel system for otherwise sporty driving and overall reliability. Costs more of course as well, but I agree, would be an asset for those areas of heavy snow.
The awd version drives exactly the same way as the rwd version except when wheelspin conditions are encountered.

Your conclusion that awd is only useful if you drive where you benefit from some torque going to the front axle is correct. In other conditions the awd does not operate at all so is literally dead weight.

Its advantage is also its drawback.

The newest Jaguars have all surface progress control co-developed with their Land Rover engineers. Basically a development of hill descent control fitted to land rovers and range rovers (and on some Ford trucks, my daughter's Raptor has this software fitted also) jaguar uses the same wheelspin, automatic braking and speed limiter to provide astonishing limited slip functions up to 19 km/hr using only rwd.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-09-2017, 05:35 PM
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How does it work if you have the AWD version?

Normal conditions it is RWD and then switches to AWD when it senses the road conditions are slippery?

Thanks

1992 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce, 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia, 2018 Volkswagen Tiguan SEL Premium
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-09-2017, 05:55 PM
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How does it work if you have the AWD version?

Normal conditions it is RWD and then switches to AWD when it senses the road conditions are slippery?

Thanks
Yes, like this. It can transfer up to 60% of torque to front axle on Giulia and up to 50% on Stelvio.

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