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post #1 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-09-2017, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Giulia problems

My Giulia TI is now 6 months old, with 5,000 miles, and I've had about 7 mostly electronic problems, all but the most recent having been resolved by dealer-applied software up-dates. The most recent glitch occurred after the 5,000 mile service, at which several additional updates had been applied:

After driving for about 2 hours, the A/C stopped cooling. This resolved after stopping, then restarting the engine. However, upon restarting, the "Stop/start" warning symbol appeared, although the Stop/Start was still functioning. This warning also disappeared after restarting the engine. All was well until the following day, when again after driving for a couple of hours, this sequence repeated, again resolving after restarting the engine. I haven't driven that long since, so I don't know if this is a continuing problem. I assume it's yet another software problem that will be addressed by another update.

Of more concern is discoloration of the previously-black trim strip surrounding the side windows, which looks like the oxidation one used to see on cars exposed to the US southern sun (see attached photos). The dealer service rep agrees that it's oxidation, and says that it should "rub out." Indeed it does "rub out," but requires quite a bit of scrubbing, then returns. It's quite ugly on an otherwise beautiful MonteCarlo blue car. It's bad enough to justify replacing the trim.

Has anyone else had either of these electronic or trim discoloration problems?

I will say that the car is a delight to drive, but uncertainty about electronic problems makes me anxious about taking long trips.

I've heard that software updates are coming to allow disabling the Stop/Start feature and reducing the volume of the seat-belt warning bong, 2 features I find annoying - has anyone else heard of these?

Don
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post #2 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-09-2017, 11:06 AM
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can't speak to the trim pieces as I have not had any cosmetic issues....as far as long trips...I have been back & forth NY to Boston and NY Newport RI....not a glitch....
it would seem that the vast majority of those who have experienced issues with their cars have had them solved with the software flashes/updates....myself included.
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post #3 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-11-2017, 11:06 AM
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Have a 2.0 200hp since 12/2016 and 15000 miles now, no issues
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post #4 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-11-2017, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfourza View Post
My Giulia TI is now 6 months old, with 5,000 miles, and I've had about 7 mostly electronic problems, all but the most recent having been resolved by dealer-applied software up-dates. The most recent glitch occurred after the 5,000 mile service, at which several additional updates had been applied:

After driving for about 2 hours, the A/C stopped cooling. This resolved after stopping, then restarting the engine. However, upon restarting, the "Stop/start" warning symbol appeared, although the Stop/Start was still functioning. This warning also disappeared after restarting the engine. All was well until the following day, when again after driving for a couple of hours, this sequence repeated, again resolving after restarting the engine. I haven't driven that long since, so I don't know if this is a continuing problem. I assume it's yet another software problem that will be addressed by another update.

Of more concern is discoloration of the previously-black trim strip surrounding the side windows, which looks like the oxidation one used to see on cars exposed to the US southern sun (see attached photos). The dealer service rep agrees that it's oxidation, and says that it should "rub out." Indeed it does "rub out," but requires quite a bit of scrubbing, then returns. It's quite ugly on an otherwise beautiful MonteCarlo blue car. It's bad enough to justify replacing the trim.

Has anyone else had either of these electronic or trim discoloration problems?

I will say that the car is a delight to drive, but uncertainty about electronic problems makes me anxious about taking long trips.

I've heard that software updates are coming to allow disabling the Stop/Start feature and reducing the volume of the seat-belt warning bong, 2 features I find annoying - has anyone else heard of these?

Don
Don,

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post #5 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-12-2017, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfourza View Post
Of more concern is discoloration of the previously-black trim strip surrounding the side windows, which looks like the oxidation one used to see on cars exposed to the US southern sun (see attached photos). The dealer service rep agrees that it's oxidation, and says that it should "rub out." Indeed it does "rub out," but requires quite a bit of scrubbing, then returns. It's quite ugly on an otherwise beautiful MonteCarlo blue car. It's bad enough to justify replacing the trim.

Don
Should be a warranty claim, my dad had a similar problem on an Audi a few years ago and they replaced all his affected trim.

Tad
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post #6 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-12-2017, 02:48 PM
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Try joining/asking same question on the Giulia forum, lots of Giulia owners can advise if they saw similar issue, mine has the chrome trim so cannot comment.

Alfa Romeo Giulia Issues And Problems - Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum

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post #7 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-16-2017, 08:26 AM
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Looks like it was washed with a belt sander.
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post #8 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-19-2017, 11:18 AM
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I continue to be wary of newer cars with so high a content of electronics and questionable software, which now are estimated to be more than 50% of the value of the car, and are pretty darn hackable to some extent, top say nothing of the software having too many bugs as developed, the customer being the beta tester.

Among other problems, evidently hackers can lock the doors of newer cars and not let them be unlocked until a ransom is paid, just like locking up a computer. Just swell. They also revealed that hackers have even figured out how to hack the sensor controlled anti-lock brakes of cars 30 years old or more.

The big worry now is what happens in the near future when there will probably be large fleets of self driving cars/trucks, and someone is able to hack into and control a group of them. Since nothing is, or will be, 100% unhackable, could be mass chaos.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 09-19-2017 at 11:22 AM.
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post #9 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-19-2017, 11:34 AM
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30 years ago? How didntjey connect to the abs braking system? Bluetooth?
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post #10 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-19-2017, 12:28 PM
Del
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The WSJ article says:

"The hacker first gains access to a car's internal communication network by compromising a device connected to it, such as a smartphone or USB adapters. But once inside, researchers found they could shut down critical systems relatively easily by mimicking, or spoofing, error messages on the central communications network standard in most cars".

Basically, then, as soon as the car's internal communications system is connected to the outside world in some way, a common condition/setup these days even with older cars, the car becomes vulnerable.

Even worse for today's cars, which are connected in many ways. The most obvious example which comes to my mind would be a Tesla Model S, for which the company can access and revise the software in the car as you drive.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 09-19-2017 at 12:33 PM.
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post #11 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 07:48 AM
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Computers not connected the internet or without any connected Bluetooth active cannot be hacked.

This area is a bit urban myth based.

Self driving cars are a long way off, currently it is not possible to design one let alone build one.

Current hype about self driving cars is just that, pure hype. It simply cannot be done as yet and nobody currently alive has any idea how to move to the next level of AI required to get there.

Automated driving (which is all that is currently possible) requires no outside connectivity. However, to mimic autonomous driving to the current hyped up level the best current software must have interconnectivity and is at present extremely vulnerable to outside influences. By appearing to process incoming data the automated driverless cars now operating merely mimic autonomous control. Actual driving by humans involves the reverse of currently automated driving. Humans learn to filter out all extraneous inputs automatically and without difficulty. Computers at the moment must process every bit of incoming data very rapidly in order to reject 99% of it as irrelevant, the use the 1% to operate a decision tree very, very rapidly. Any anomalous input of data has the potential to completely confuse any current computer.

Even if full autonomy is developed there is at the moment no way to avoid simple external vandalism taking control of automated cars. For example several people acting in concert could herd unoccupied fully autonomous cars into potentially lethal stampedes. A moment's thought will see how fully autonomous cars could be herded by pedestrians intent on mischief just as a herd of cattle might be.

That's the problem with even conceiving of actually operating fully autonomous cars, they cannot be made to realize reality.

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White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new

Last edited by Michael Smith; 09-26-2017 at 07:52 AM.
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post #12 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 11:10 AM
Del
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"Computers not connected the internet or without any connected Bluetooth active cannot be hacked"

That is true, but many, and more all the time, are connected in one way or another by the driver/owner, thus opening the door for hacking. And as I mentioned, some manufacturers, a prime example is Tesla, are connected full time in design. The ability to hack has been demonstrated in modern cars with internal computers running most functions, including steering, braking, throttle, fuel control, hvac, door locks, windshield wipers, the list goes on and on, if anything is connected to an outside source. Almost all new cars have several dozen computers on board.

As for truly autonomous cars, many are pretty darn close. Yes, you are correct that there are situations imaged where the software is yet to be determined (if possible), but at this time there are a few test cars crossing the US as I write this according to what I've just read, and many local tests for totally autonomous cars have been conducted (some with standby drivers, some without), evidently mostly successfully, within the parameters of the software, some software being more sophisticated than others. Situations you imagine of these cars being "harassed" by pedestrians or vehicles could most likely result in a stationary safety mode or even total shutdown.

The future is a little closer than you might, or seem to, think, for better or for worse. I, for one, am not in favor of totally 100% autonomous vehicles, except in very limited usage/situations. Time will tell, though.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 09-26-2017 at 11:14 AM.
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post #13 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-27-2017, 07:19 AM
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Fully autonomous cars are just not possible.

The danger to enthusiast drivers is presented by fully automated cars which require only that the driver remain alert and ready to instantly take control of the car.

If automated driving becomes the norm it will be necessary to significantly reduce any self driving cars, the two cannot mix.

All that current testing of "autonomous" cars is demonstrating is that full autonomy is not possible.

Buy a Giulia today.....

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
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post #14 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-27-2017, 09:28 AM
Del
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Lol, if you think so. Time will tell, that's or sure. I do think you are underestimating the abilities of people who are trying to derive the required software, to say nothing about the capabilities/sophistication of increasingly compact computers/sensors. And no, I'm not really in favor of fully autonomous vehicles as well.

I used to think the same about subjects such as multiple gravitational body orbital mechanics, and yet, the software developed can aim satellites and space probes to within feet of a desired destinations anywhere in out planetary system, and beyond. A truly phenomenal feat.

Anyway, time will tell.

BTW, still not interested in a new Giulia at this point in time. It just doesn't get me excited, what with all the electronics in it doing most of the driving interaction. Maybe if the LS died... but probably not.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 09-27-2017 at 11:15 AM.
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post #15 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-27-2017, 04:46 PM
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If you want to buy new and you're looking for four doors and a decent trunk but don't want ordinary the Giulia and the Jaguar XE are the only game in town.

BMW, Mercedes and Audi all make competing cars as do Lexus and Infiniti. But the Giulia is the best drive of them all. I also like the Jaguar but I already own a facelift XF awd so not in that market right now.

My wife is but she wants a smaller car really.

Giulia is tempting, well equipped drives exceptionally well and the turbo four is right up to date and very powerful. The Giulia interior is particularly special in its class.
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