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post #46 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 09:32 AM
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Blame the customer. not usually a good strategy. perception is reality (!) Things have come a long way since the 164. I work in the auto industry and customer satisfaction is paramount. No other vehicle i've owned has experience these types of swings because they calibrate things as much for customer feel as for simple math values.

When the temp is set to 70, the ambient vehicle temp is more like 60 and the AC blows very cold air. because it is blowing cold, i adjust the temp up and it continues blowing cold air until the temp is set more towards 82 or so, then switches to hot air. there's nowhere in between. It's far to digital and doesn't seem to actually seek a steady state.

My previous vehicles (F150, Tahoe, Volvo, Audi) didn't experience this type of unpredictable temp balance. Normally i drive for 2 or more hrs at a shot normally and it usually start to get out of whack after about 30 min. or so.

FCA had calibration issues early on with the cabin temperature sensor. I don't think it's fixed yet

Last edited by kpc655; 06-04-2018 at 09:57 AM.
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post #47 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 03:09 PM
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Funny, it's the same with my home reverse cycle heating/aircon.
I never use the auto temp maintenance function, coz as soon as temp sneaks over or under the temp you have set, the system compensates by blowing hot or cold air.
If it is cold outside and I want to be warmer, I set it to heat, and it turns itself off when it reaches that temp. It only blows warm again if the temp dips. Never blows cold, and I don't see that you would want it to when the cold is what you're trying to get away from. And vice-versa in summer, of course.
As smart as the vehicle auto systems are meant to be, I'm not surprised they respond in the same way and suffer the same hot/cold fluctuations when set to auto mode.
I'd be looking just for the semi-auto 'heat' or 'cool' functions if they exist, to see if the problem diminishes, and chill out. (:-/)
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post #48 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 04:20 PM
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I would like to share my terrible experience with my 2018 Giulia Quadrifoglio

I bought a brand new 2018 Giulia QV in March this year at Auto Gallery Santa Monica. Beautiful spec black on black wheels with black interior. Yellow calipers, this car was amazing. 78K spec. I am a car collector, I own many Porsche, and I also have a 74 GTV and a 88 Milano verde. I was looking to replace my Cayenne Turbo with something different. When I saw that car in the showroom it was love at first sight.

Took possession of the car in March, and decided to respect a very strict break-in procedure as well as doing an oil change after 1000 miles. After a week only and 60 miles, the engine check light came out. I brought back the car, they diagnosed a bad battery, replaced it, and in a matter of 24h, I had my car back, happy.

3 weeks after, 1100 miles, I started to hear a noise in the steering/suspension, every time I would take a sharp turn. I decided to bring it back to the service as well as changing the oil for the first time. Service advisor on the phone when I told him I wanted an oil change : “what for???, manufacturer does not recommend this, laughing at me”. Well I could have spent 20 min talking about the benefits of changing the oil after 1000 miles but was it really necessary? I want an oil change, that’s my problem right? Anyway, that genius did not propose a loaner, and I came back home hoping to have my car back soon after that.

Well….this was 6 weeks ago, the car is still there, cover with dust, the whole front suspension out, lemon law lawyer involved, and me living with my frustration and waiting for my money back.

First week, communication by SMS with Mr Genius, “I have no news for you, we didn’t start the car, we are busy” (why did you ask me to bring the car on a tuesday then?). Second week “we take the whole front suspension appart, didn’t find anything wrong” Third week “we had to fly a special mechanic to LA who thinks we need to change the whole front subframe/suspension” Fouth week “waiting for parts” Fifth week “waiting for parts” Sixth Week “waiting for tooling, we never fixed that part so we don’t have the right tools”. At that point I lost my passion for that lemon of a car and decided it was over.

The whole time, I had to insist to have updates on the car, I always felt I was bothering that service advisor. Talking with service Manager, and Auto Gallery CEO, they both agreed at one point that the car would never be or feel the same, and I should ask for a replacement or my money back. I got in touch with Alfa Service Care department, telling them the whole story, they didn’t seem to realize the gravity if the situation. You buy a 80K + USD new car, drive it less than a month, and it’s blocked for 6 weeks for a problem they can’t fix. They call me back telling me “we are going to try our best to fix the car” after I clearly mentioned I wanted my money back OR a replacement.

At that point I contacted a Lemon Law lawyer who took my case quickly, told me it was an easy case, and Alfa was not very clever not to try to deal directly with me, as now they will also have to pay the lawyer fees.

But the whole process will still take time, I don’t expect to have my money back before September, it’s extremely frustrating… I am furious.

I told Auto Gallery CEO, I still loved that car and would even be ok to try my luck with another one, once I would get my money back, he then found the same spec, told me he would hold it for me, but come on….if I need to wait few months to get my money back…

Plus Alfa won’t cover the 1600 usd front clear bra I installed after I bought the car…

I leave the best for the end. When I told the service advisor that I would stop by to pick up the stuff in my car, he answered “don’t forget to bring back the loaner car”…. That genius knew my case so well that he even didn’t remember that he never proposed one…

Well done Alfa Romeo …. your come back in USA is a success, you are following the path of Fiat and their wonderful consumers rating in this country!
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post #49 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 05:35 PM
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Oh dear

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post #50 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 10:32 PM
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While I can accept that a few cars in a production line will fail badly from the assembly quality control. However the real problems are inexcusable...1) the dealer...the same type of dealer that destroyed Alfa going back to the seventies, and 2) the Alfa Romeo national distributor, who should have hand delivered the owner a replacement car, and then ripped the dealer a new anus...and then taken the failed car back to the Italian assembly line and forced the morons who built it to take the car entirely apart and then rebuild it...on their own time.

I am one of the vast majority of new Giulia owners who is so far very happy with my car. But this man's story reminds me of the dishonest people at Hollywood Sports Cars in the 1970s...they never did pre delivery inspections, they never performed the 1500 mile service (including valve adjustment), they just kept washing the car and handing it back to the new owner. The first 5 days I owned my 77 Alfetta Sport Sedan I had to be flat bedded back to the dealer each and every day. Only when I threatened to get an injunction against them selling any more new cars in California did they begin to take care of business.

We all should be aware of how a class action suit against Porsche of North America single handedly destroyed the resale value of the 1999 through 2004 996 generation of 911s. Seems they had a bad bearing in the engine that would totally wipe out the entire motor. The class action suit won and Porsche was flying new engines into the USA by the crate load.

I suggest that the owner of this lemon threaten Alfa with just such an action if they don't resolve his problem within 48 hours. And not a second longer. And start off with a request under the Freedom of Information Act for all Giulia service records for all the cars they have sold to date in the USA.
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post #51 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-05-2018, 12:34 AM
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It is never the faults that make a bad car, it is how they are dealt with.

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post #52 of 73 (permalink) Old 08-03-2018, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pistonclub View Post
I would like to share my terrible experience with my 2018 Giulia Quadrifoglio

I bought a brand new 2018 Giulia QV in March this year at Auto Gallery Santa Monica. Beautiful spec black on black wheels with black interior. Yellow calipers, this car was amazing. 78K spec. I am a car collector, I own many Porsche, and I also have a 74 GTV and a 88 Milano verde. I was looking to replace my Cayenne Turbo with something different. When I saw that car in the showroom it was love at first sight.

Took possession of the car in March, and decided to respect a very strict break-in procedure as well as doing an oil change after 1000 miles. After a week only and 60 miles, the engine check light came out. I brought back the car, they diagnosed a bad battery, replaced it, and in a matter of 24h, I had my car back, happy.

3 weeks after, 1100 miles, I started to hear a noise in the steering/suspension, every time I would take a sharp turn. I decided to bring it back to the service as well as changing the oil for the first time. Service advisor on the phone when I told him I wanted an oil change : “what for???, manufacturer does not recommend this, laughing at me”. Well I could have spent 20 min talking about the benefits of changing the oil after 1000 miles but was it really necessary? I want an oil change, that’s my problem right? Anyway, that genius did not propose a loaner, and I came back home hoping to have my car back soon after that.

Well….this was 6 weeks ago, the car is still there, cover with dust, the whole front suspension out, lemon law lawyer involved, and me living with my frustration and waiting for my money back.

First week, communication by SMS with Mr Genius, “I have no news for you, we didn’t start the car, we are busy” (why did you ask me to bring the car on a tuesday then?). Second week “we take the whole front suspension appart, didn’t find anything wrong” Third week “we had to fly a special mechanic to LA who thinks we need to change the whole front subframe/suspension” Fouth week “waiting for parts” Fifth week “waiting for parts” Sixth Week “waiting for tooling, we never fixed that part so we don’t have the right tools”. At that point I lost my passion for that lemon of a car and decided it was over.

The whole time, I had to insist to have updates on the car, I always felt I was bothering that service advisor. Talking with service Manager, and Auto Gallery CEO, they both agreed at one point that the car would never be or feel the same, and I should ask for a replacement or my money back. I got in touch with Alfa Service Care department, telling them the whole story, they didn’t seem to realize the gravity if the situation. You buy a 80K + USD new car, drive it less than a month, and it’s blocked for 6 weeks for a problem they can’t fix. They call me back telling me “we are going to try our best to fix the car” after I clearly mentioned I wanted my money back OR a replacement.

At that point I contacted a Lemon Law lawyer who took my case quickly, told me it was an easy case, and Alfa was not very clever not to try to deal directly with me, as now they will also have to pay the lawyer fees.

But the whole process will still take time, I don’t expect to have my money back before September, it’s extremely frustrating… I am furious.

I told Auto Gallery CEO, I still loved that car and would even be ok to try my luck with another one, once I would get my money back, he then found the same spec, told me he would hold it for me, but come on….if I need to wait few months to get my money back…

Plus Alfa won’t cover the 1600 usd front clear bra I installed after I bought the car…

I leave the best for the end. When I told the service advisor that I would stop by to pick up the stuff in my car, he answered “don’t forget to bring back the loaner car”…. That genius knew my case so well that he even didn’t remember that he never proposed one…

Well done Alfa Romeo …. your come back in USA is a success, you are following the path of Fiat and their wonderful consumers rating in this country!

Sadly, they are following the path they laid down in the 70's. Why do you think they have been absent in this market for so long? Just my gut feel but I do not think they will be here very long unless some German manufacturer buys them and straightens them out a bit. I mean, it cannot get much worse than FC.

Past Beloved Alfas: 1972 GTV 2000 1966 Duetto 1986 Graduate
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post #53 of 73 (permalink) Old 08-03-2018, 03:27 PM
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Well, so far, we don't know the final outcome of this one, if there is one, yet. Pistonclub has been silent lately. Can't judge yet as to what the problem was, if there was one.

Del

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #54 of 73 (permalink) Old 08-03-2018, 04:28 PM
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Today's WSJ, Fiat Chrysler in beg trouble in China. Was supposed to be their big halo market...but they are tanking.

My own fear for the USA market is that they will dump us to pour more money into China.
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post #55 of 73 (permalink) Old 08-04-2018, 06:28 AM
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You guys are having a big trade war with China. The loser in those disagreements is always the country that imports more stuff which is why freer trade has developed over time. The Chinese economy is not growing as quickly as it has just recently. Watch what happens to the US economy if your tariff wars are not ended pretty quickly.

This is head banging stuff when watched from the outside looking in.

FCA's biggest problem right now is the death of a very talented CEO.

The biggest problem with the US auto market right now is your current POTUS.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
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post #56 of 73 (permalink) Old 08-04-2018, 08:43 AM
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Certainly the proposed tariffs on European cars and steel could be a disaster for FCA.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #57 of 73 (permalink) Old 08-04-2018, 10:24 AM
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Fiat Chrysler's problems are not Trump, they are the simple facts that both these companies (together and separate) have been disasters for years. Their only strategy has been retreat and regroup...but they never address the core problems of their businesses...of their companies. Anyone interested can look up the WSJ article and read it. Fiat Chrysler's problems in China predate by years any talks of tariffs. Blaming Trump is typical brainwashed liberal clap trap. Alfa's problems have been legendary. The engineers often have made great cars only to have the company management and Italian politics turn victory into defeat. Italy is a perfect example of the failure of the culture of entitlement.

As for Alfa in the USA...the disaster goes back to the s1950s when a man named Hoffman went to Italy and got the distribution rights to Alfa in the American market. Italy really didn't consider the American market worth their time so they gave Hoffman only one condition...he had to have a million dollars in spare parts. Hoffman walked down the street and bought a million dollars of parts for older models at ten cents on the dollar. Alfa sniffed the receipt for the parts and gave him the deal. Hoffman then opened up dealerships across America that proceeded to rape the American customers and send the warranty bills to Alfa.

Hoffman made the same deal with most of the Germans but they quickly saw through the sham and scam, and they bought their distribution rights back from Hoffman and took control of their dealerships. Where are we today? Compare Alfa's fortunes in the USA with those of Porsche, Mercedes, BMW and Audi.

At this point the only hope for Alfa's survival as a company will be if a Korean or Indian or Chinese company buys them. If that happens you will instantly have a better dealer network, but it really won't be an Alfa anymore.
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post #58 of 73 (permalink) Old 08-04-2018, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
Certainly the proposed tariffs on European cars and steel could be a disaster for FCA.
You didn't be notice when Juncker took all the money out of Trump's wallet before slipping it back? There'll be no tariffs against European cars. Juncker probably just mentioned the 25% US tariff already applied to commercial vehicles due to some very old row about Turkey. Interestingly, Ford somehow manages to import their very successful Transit series, made in Turkey for the EU market but probably in Mexico for the US.

The metals tariff is so bone headed as to beggar belief. Two huge consumers of sheet steel in the US: appliance makers and automakers and the biggest US consumers of sheet aluminum: Boeing, canned food and beverages and automakers will pay much more for their metal than foreign competitors. MAPA. If you tax imports of the metal used to make products in America you'll need to tax imports of anything that includes the same metals or foreign manufacturers using those metals will get a big boost.

As for FCA having financial troubles because it is poorly managed, really? Checked the FCA stock price history? P/E ratio? Debt to equity? Marchionne was a very skilled and intelligent CEO, trained as a lawyer, accountant and MBA as far as I know. In fact THE reason the Giulia is do good is Marchionne's management skills. Ferrari and Maserati are due to benefit also from planning he did. Chrysler is basically now Jeep and finally making big profits from that specialization. Ironically the best jeeps are now built on Alfa Romeo platforms. Those metal tariffs are going to give imported automobiles a significant pricing edge fairly soon.

Bone head for prez.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new

Last edited by Michael Smith; 08-04-2018 at 12:22 PM.
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post #59 of 73 (permalink) Old 08-04-2018, 01:15 PM
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" Blaming Trump is typical brainwashed liberal clap trap"

While many may/do disagree with the policies and the man, please refrain from using inflammatory verbage. We were discussing general economic trade policies and the effects on companies in the last couple of posts.

Otherwise, you do have a point about the quality of most Fiat/Alfa dealerships of the past. This held true for most European car dealerships, in my experience.

However, the original subject is whether or not the new Giulia itself has an reliability problems, for instance as CU predicts.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 08-04-2018 at 01:29 PM.
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post #60 of 73 (permalink) Old 08-04-2018, 01:34 PM
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No one prefers tariffs, just as no one prefers nuclear bombs. But sometimes they both are the right tool at the right time for the right reason. As for the cost of importing cars into the US...if the car justifies the price I'll pay it. The Giulia is already overdue for some upgrades. (This was China's complaint about the Jeep) So far the 2018 model gave us Apple Play. I would have rather had a manual transmission (for the esoteric art of it)...or a Giulia Coupe...or best of all, a Giulietta. Or even 36,000 miles of all maintenance costs paid by the factory.

As much as I like the car, at this point in time I don't see a company that will merit return business.
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