Want manual giulia.... - Page 45 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #661 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 09:43 PM
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Manual transmissions are being dropped because demand is too low. Automatics shift faster, deliver quicker acceleration and better fuel economy. Automatics also prevent driver error from ruining drivetrain components.

Furthermore, the current DCT type and lockup clutch torque converter transmissions with paddle shifters permit the same direct driver control of the car as manual transmissions but without the foot operated clutch.

The final nail in the coffin will be ubiquitous hybrid drivetrains. A 48v multi function electric motor is going into the drivetrain replacing the clutch, torque converter, starter and alternator providing fully electric only operation for commuting distances plus seamless stop/start function. These systems are just not compatible with a manual gearbox.

It is possible to enjoy driving a modern automatic equipped car as much as an older manual transmission car. If you want to preserve the "classic" experience of the foot pedal clutch you should buy and keep a classic car before they are all gone to the junkyard or a collector's garage. In the next few years the number of new manual shift cars will drop to absolute zero.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
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post #662 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 10:13 PM
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Day 870 of me not trading in my 6MT 335 on a brand new Giulia...
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post #663 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 11:05 PM
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"It is possible to enjoy driving a modern automatic equipped car as much as an older manual transmission car"

To each their own. Having driven both, your argument means little to me.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #664 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
......It is possible to enjoy driving a modern automatic equipped car as much as an older manual transmission car...........

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah..................The Troll is back!

1966 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce - slightly modified!
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post #665 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 05:48 AM
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Just because he has a different opinion to you doesn’t make him a troll.

Both of our current Alfas are six speed manuals and they are great fun, but the fact that Giulias only come in auto doesn’t bother me at all. We followed one into town in our 159 tonight and it was a gorgeous thing. There is a heck of a lot to like about them.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), sonís girlfiendís car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (sonís new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #666 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 06:25 AM
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Here we go again. We DON’T CARE that a modern automatic is better. To tell me it’s as much fun or as involving as a manual is spectacularly arrogant. No Michael, because an automatic is “better” most certainly doesn’t make it more enjoyable. I waited a year to buy a Giulia hoping they’d offer a manual. BMW and Audi fake the engine sound, which is repugnant in principle and an absolute deal-breaker. So I finally bought a Giulia. It’s great, and it has a great automatic transmission. I always use the paddles (even though it works very well on its own). It would be several orders of magnitude more enjoyable if it had a manual ‘box. It’s a crying shame that it doesn’t, and it’s a missed opportunity.

2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport Q4 Performance, 2005 Aston Martin Vanquish S, 2009 Aston Martin V8 Vantage, 1983 Saab 900 Turbo, 2007 Jaguar XJ8, 2018 Audi Q7 (wife's)
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post #667 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 06:46 AM
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@oz3litre The reason, I’m guessing, for the Troll comment is that Michael, throughout this thread, has been insulting and condescending. He insists on telling those of us who want a manual ‘box that we’re simple, pigheaded, obtuse, and essentially just dumb. A difference of opinion is fine, but it’s much more than that.

2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport Q4 Performance, 2005 Aston Martin Vanquish S, 2009 Aston Martin V8 Vantage, 1983 Saab 900 Turbo, 2007 Jaguar XJ8, 2018 Audi Q7 (wife's)
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post #668 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 07:12 AM
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post #669 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 09:07 AM
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Well, I don't think he is that bad, but lol, he IS kind of hung up on automatic transmissions. To each their own I say. Me, yes, I've driven automatic equipped cars, and then I go back to driving the 91S and the 94LS, and end up thinking, this is sure more fun. That's what it is for me. It's just more fun in a tactile way.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #670 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 11:27 AM
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Probably the ultimate driving experience for the ordinary driver would be found in a go kart. Even shifter karts don't require use of a pedal operated clutch.

I stay interested in this thread because it is important to remind anyone interested in buying a Giulia that the absence of a manual transmission option is no obstacle to enjoying driving one. It will not be long before there can be no discussion about availability of a manual transmission in any modern car. Not enough customers want one. Fuel economy and emissions regulation are also making manual transmissions close to impossible to offer.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
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post #671 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 12:09 PM
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Yes, it can be enjoyable for some, maybe most. We admit that, don't have to be reminded, but for many it is just not as enjoyable as the alternative. IMO, the main reason for automatics, as far as the average customer (not the experts or top racers) is concerned, is that most drivers are somewhat unskilled and lazy. Automatics fit their limitations and appliance needs perfectly. Most probably having never touched/driven a manual at all. Lol, will have to look for that buggy whip.

I've had riders say, I don't know what you are doing, but it is cool.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #672 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 03:35 PM
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Only way to get it is to move to Europe, some said here. I suppose thats too much even for an enthusiast, but here how the manual is: tester says the car is wonderful. Sorry that rest of the world was not offered this option as many would have bought it!

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post #673 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 04:35 PM
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That sounds and looks really cool. Even though the auto isn’t a deal breaker for me, if a manual was available, I would be tempted. It’s never going to happen for right hand drive countries like ours, so it’s pointless wishing for it.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), sonís girlfiendís car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (sonís new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #674 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
Manual transmissions are being dropped because demand is too low. Automatics shift faster, deliver quicker acceleration and better fuel economy. Automatics also prevent driver error from ruining drivetrain components.

Furthermore, the current DCT type and lockup clutch torque converter transmissions with paddle shifters permit the same direct driver control of the car as manual transmissions but without the foot operated clutch.

The final nail in the coffin will be ubiquitous hybrid drivetrains. A 48v multi function electric motor is going into the drivetrain replacing the clutch, torque converter, starter and alternator providing fully electric only operation for commuting distances plus seamless stop/start function. These systems are just not compatible with a manual gearbox.

It is possible to enjoy driving a modern automatic equipped car as much as an older manual transmission car. If you want to preserve the "classic" experience of the foot pedal clutch you should buy and keep a classic car before they are all gone to the junkyard or a collector's garage. In the next few years the number of new manual shift cars will drop to absolute zero.
I am here to say that it's a blast driving a modern automatic alfa, I still feel fully connected to the car with a bit less effort or skill. I also agree that if you want the classic analog car you should keep your classic analog car. The shifting is blindingly fast, much faster than I could ever shift in a manual gearbox. I enjoy every minute in the giulia, I enjoyed every minute in my manual shift analogs too. It's similar to having a vinyl collection and playing that on a tube amp, then playing your vinyl in high-res digital form on your tube amp. Or something to that effect! ha! You loose a little of that analog feel but it's still there in some sense or another. I am very happy with the new Giulia and I'd be happy with an old one too. Change of mindset might help! But if they offer a manual I'd take it.


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post #675 of 883 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 09:20 PM
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The design doesn't seem interesting to me. If they ever come with a coupe, I hope it looks nothing like this - like 105 Berlina and GTV - completely different designs.
Alfa used to dare to be different. This just seems like any other.
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