Want manual giulia.... - Page 42 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #616 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-05-2018, 08:30 PM
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I actually do share Del's opinion that Giulia looks a bit like a Nissan from behind, specifically the Infinity G35. I parked next to one and there was some similarity. It does look unique though. In a sense all modern cars must be a bit similar due to the required stiffening and bumpers. It was from staring at that sexy behind (it was always the behind because I had a Peugeot 108 and in Italy unlike the self-righteous USA people get out of the way when a fast car appears in their rearview) on the Autostrada this summer that I fell in love with the car.
Regardless, we have gotten off topic.

I did fill out another new-owner survey emailed to me by FCA today. I made sure to write that I wanted a manual in several of the boxes of the form!
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post #617 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-13-2018, 08:37 AM
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@Del @alfisti164l - I have to say that from a distance and especially in dark colors, the side view and rear 3/4 looks like a nissan or lexus. I spied a display model in the Jacksonville airport and thats what I thought until I was closer. Not so much in red, ex has a red TI and it looks different to me with the curves in the body more distinct. I like it more than the competition in this class, Audi A4/BMW 3/Mecedes C/Volvo whatever/Jaguar XE. Up close there are little design details, the curve up on the trunk lip and the little crease above the Alfa badge that are very nice. And the design themes from the 8C and the 4C carry over nicely. That red car has a red interior, it would not be for me but it really nice, gorgeous in fact, bright red that somehow seems to work.

But what do I know, I love the styling of a 164 (s or L) and am forever stuck on the Alfetta GT/GTV6.

Too bad my ex has the TI because my girlfriend is looking for a new car and would be super in a red Giulia, or a blue one with a parchment interior (do they make that?) but the same car will be a non-starter!

Looking forward to getting an auto Giulia or a 4c someday, left knee is bad and so it is reserved for GTV6 clutch!
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post #618 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-13-2018, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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At least Genesis (Hyundai) are on the ball 👍

https://www.motor1.com/news/237560/2...anual-gearbox/
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1966 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce - slightly modified!

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post #619 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 10:19 PM
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About the mt quardrafoglio..... i drive and tits beefy but i would not mis it for a minute. Ok at is faster but the oldschool feel of the mt and the precision u have to put in, for the drivers. And the brakes are very well u can get to a smooth stop regardeless what they say.
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post #620 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
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1966 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce - slightly modified!
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post #621 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-24-2018, 05:30 PM
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Went to Costco today for some supplies plus one of the chickens (we get 6 individual meals out of one of them). Walking in the parking lot, I spotted a car which looked like it had a familiar round emblem in the middle of the trunk. I wonder, I thought. Looking closer, yes, it was a Giulia, metallic black. Told Barb, hey, look at that. What, she asked. It's a Giulia I said. Oh, she says, I didn't recognize it from the back, looked like the car next to it (whatever that was, don't remember). She's lived with various Alfas for decades, so knows what they should look like. No, I said, see the emblem. Oh yeah.

I then said, maybe we could get one of those. No way, Jose, she says, I want a manual shift car. Do Audis now come with manuals like the one our friend has, she asked? Beats the hell out of me, I mumbled, but while they are beautifully made, I said I don't really want an Audi, BMW, Mercedes, or even a Volvo. Jaguar?

Oh well, As long as I can keep the LS, S, and Milano running... but someday maybe.

Del

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1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
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previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

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post #622 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-24-2018, 09:03 PM
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Went to Costco today for some supplies plus one of the chickens (we get 6 individual meals out of one of them). Walking in the parking lot, I spotted a car which looked like it had a familiar round emblem in the middle of the trunk. I wonder, I thought. Looking closer, yes, it was a Giulia, metallic black. Told Barb, hey, look at that. What, she asked. It's a Giulia I said. Oh, she says, I didn't recognize it from the back, looked like the car next to it, whatever that was, don't remember. No, I said, see the emblem.

I then said, maybe we could get one of those. No way, Jose, she says, I want a manual shift car. Do Audis now come with manuals like the one our friend has, she asked? Beats the hell out of me, I mumbled, but while they are beautifully made, I said I don't really want an Audi, BMW, Mercedes, or even a Volvo. Jaguar?

Oh well, As long as I can keep the LS, S, and Milano running... but someday maybe.
Del, I do not remember a name of the engineer who told that every car with a drag coefficient lower than 0.30 looked almost the same. By the memory it was Domenico Chirico, former head of engineering department of Alfa Romeo. He thought about it when Audi Auto 2000 was presented in 1981. That time Alfa designers considered the best Cd 0.36 for production cars of the next generation (up to 2000). The reason why Alfa Romeo had own shape for many years was a lack of aerodynamic efficiency compare to German competitors.

The shape of any drag efficient aerodynamic car is almost equal to any other car. If you see something different by the shape it means the car does not have good aerodynamics.

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post #623 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-24-2018, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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The shape of any drag efficient aerodynamic car is almost equal to any other car. If you see something different by the shape it means the car does not have good aerodynamics.

To be honest what benefit does it make for a daily driver in the city and the occasional 1-2 hour run up the freeway? Give me aesthetic appearance for this application any day.....in manual of course

1966 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce - slightly modified!
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post #624 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-24-2018, 10:06 PM
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Interesting. Not quite exactly true, as there is no one optimal shape for a vehicle. It is a function of the ratio of developed vehicle lift and drag, and the advent of very very good fluid dynamics software along with sophisticated wind tunnel testing has allowed great advances in understanding the three dimensional flow around a vehicle. So much of vehicle shape design was pure guess and by golly, and just plain trial and error.

The aero drag coefficients I saw listed in aero wind tunnel studies, which I was at one time involved in, low speed aero wind tunnel testing my occupation at the time, for various cars did not indicate that German cars were generally any more efficient than many others. One of the sources for drag values was a book written by Hoerner.

Lol, I do remember that the VW Beetle, not exactly the epitome of efficient aero design, had a lift coefficient so high, it could have just lifted off at what we calculated as ~150 mph or less, but the drag coefficient was also so high... the top speed was ~60 mph at first, down a hill.

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 09-25-2018 at 09:39 AM.
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post #625 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-24-2018, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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Here's aerodynamics and individualism displayed in one car back in 1955, with coefficient in the 0.30!
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1966 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce - slightly modified!
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post #626 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-24-2018, 11:31 PM
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Confused. VW Beetle had a drag co efficient of less than 0.5 (thought it was in the 0.3's). Was considered good for its day, and the Combo was better than any of our 105 Alfas.

Modern cars are so much better which amazes me as they many don't have a full undertray. Surely they help ...
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post #627 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 05:10 AM
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Confused. VW Beetle had a drag co efficient of less than 0.5 (thought it was in the 0.3's). Was considered good for its day, and the Combo was better than any of our 105 Alfas.

Modern cars are so much better which amazes me as they many don't have a full undertray. Surely they help ...
Pete
105 Giulia? Cd 0.34 is a someone's typo and correct one is 0.43. 8C 2900 B LM had 0.427.

Beetle was not the best, it was 911 than DS. Who knows what drag that companies declared but I think they told about 1/5 scale mock up data, not about real cars.

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post #628 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 05:16 AM
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Here's aerodynamics and individualism displayed in one car back in 1955, with coefficient in the 0.30!
Cd 0.382.
Aerodynamics


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post #629 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 10:48 AM
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Keep in mind that the base area drag as determined by the related cross section drag coefficient and frontal area is not the only creator of vehicle drag, as there is also lift induced drag, developed by the inherent lift of the vehicle at speed. Car designers started a few years ago to better recognize the effect of excessive vehicle lift, and have worked to reduce that lift in their overall designs to a more acceptable level, thus reducing the overall vehicle drag to some degree.

Some race cars (esp F1) with high negative lift also fight that battle of induced drag, a toss up between negative lift for increasing traction, and reducing the resulting induced drag to achieve higher speeds.

The Alfa Sprint GT design had relatively high body lift, and Alfa did a study where they attached various spoilers (remember the aftermarket Bobcor front spoiler?) to the front and rear of the car, and showed that at 100 mph they could reduce the front end lift by several hundred pounds and the rear by may be a hundred with the specific spoilers they tried. Thus, that design had relatively high total aero drag. Sure looked nice though without spoilers.

BTW, using scale models is the norm for wind tunnel testing, as the equations for developing the results take that and the shape/size of the tunnel test section into account. It's the way it is done for airplanes, as there are no tunnels which can take a commercial airliner. Much of the research now however is done with sophisticated fluid dynamics analyses.

For ground vehicles, a moving ground plane is often used which simulates the actual motion/speed of the vehicle over pavement. Not using that tends to distort the results of the test since it doesn't represent realistic conditions for the airflow under the vehicle and overall lift.

Anyway, my wife did not recognize the rear end of the Giulia, although I now do just a little, checking the center emblem to be sure. Am starting to do just a little research as to which decent sport sedans come with manual trannys, speculating as to whether or not that would be the case in several years. If none available new when the time comes, used will be the only option.
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Del

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 09-25-2018 at 11:20 AM.
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post #630 of 884 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 02:11 PM
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105 Giulia? Cd 0.34 is a someone's typo and correct one is 0.43. 8C 2900 B LM had 0.427.

Beetle was not the best, it was 911 than DS. Who knows what drag that companies declared but I think they told about 1/5 scale mock up data, not about real cars.

105 Giulia has 0.34, or is that typo on many webpages?
DS has 0.36

"The Giulia was the world's first production automobile whose body was shaped in a wind tunnel. When the Alfa Romeo engineers and stylists were done, the Giulia recorded an aerodynamic drag coefficient of 0.34; it's a number that was not only astonishing for its era, but is remarkable even today. "

-Antti: --ex Alfas:155 2.0 8V '92,155 2.0 16V '96,156 V6 '98,156 V6 '02
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Last edited by Vsix; 09-25-2018 at 02:14 PM.
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