Want manual giulia.... - Page 39 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #571 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Max Pershyn View Post
All of this countries has own standards, cars should be certified, crash tested, etc... FCA should certify every model, not a family of cars.
FYI, 7 month sales in UK - 1164, Australia - 768, Hong Kong - 3, Ireland - 35, Japan - 890, New Zealand - 45, South Africa - 18. Total = 2923 cars in 7 month. Lets say the share of manual cars is 8%. Again we are talking about 400 cars in year for approx 2.77 billion people.
Yeah, maybe A$32,000,000 to the bottom line it's worth it....(based on current Alfa sale figures).
Unfortunately you're neglecting to take into account the number of buyers holding off purchasing a new Giulia because there is no manual option.

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post #572 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Sketchl View Post
Yeah, maybe A$32,000,000 to the bottom line it's worth it....(based on current Alfa sale figures).
Unfortunately you're neglecting to take into account the number of buyers holding off purchasing a new Giulia because there is no manual option.
No more than 8% in Australia. In this segment of cars (D Premium) I think even less
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post #573 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Pershyn View Post
All of these countries has own standards, cars should be certified, crash tested, etc... FCA should certify every model, not a family of cars.
FYI, 7 month sales in UK - 1164, Australia - 768, Hong Kong - 3, Ireland - 35, Japan - 890, New Zealand - 45, South Africa - 18. Total = 2923 cars in 7 month. Lets say the share of manual cars is 8%. Again we are talking about 400 cars in year for approx 2.77 billion people.
If the FCA actually sold manual RHD Guilia's the amount sold would be a heck of a lot higher than 8%. UK is a market that loves manuals as is Japan and New Zealand. Not sure about Australia but surely Australian Alfa owners would buy manual*. I reckon it would be more like 80% overall.

Heck if I was the FCA, I would not have certified the automatic version ... we are talking about an ALFA ROMEO here, not a Toyota. People don't buy Alfa Romeos to not change their own gears. And yes I know they are trying to attract new customers to the brand but then stop the marketing BS about Alfa Romeo being driver's cars! Just market them as more expensive FIATs.

A drivers car is NOT an automatic.
Pete
* Australian Alfa owners would buy the Guilietta. Can you please obtain the sales numbers Max for the Gulietta. Would love to know what % of them are manual.

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post #574 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 05:33 PM
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post #575 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 05:36 PM
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I'm confused ...
Pete
There is no point in saying what he might have done if a manual was available because it wasnít.

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post #576 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz3litre View Post
There is no point in saying what he might have done if a manual was available because it wasnít.
If FCA provided the manually it is quite logical to assume he would have bought it ... but yes I guess you have a point and he would not be discussing the gear change, because unlike with the automatic he does not have to constantly justify the compromised decision he was forced in to.

Oh well. Even if I won $10m I would not buy this car in NZ, because of the automatic only issue. There are hundreds of cars out there, most older, that would make me much happier.
Pete

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post #577 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 06:06 PM
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He says he absolutely loves it and recommends others try one. I don’t think he feels like it is a compromise now.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), sonís girlfiendís car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (sonís new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #578 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 07:12 PM
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Michael, WHY would it be "worthwhile to you? Are you a paid advertiser? If so you MUST UPDATE your user profile and your BB subscription rate will change. Please advise.
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I'm an Alfisti. Have been since 1974. Bought my first Alfa in 1981. If I infect just one more person with this benign disease it will all be worthwhile.

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post #579 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 02:39 AM
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He says he absolutely loves it and recommends others try one. I donít think he feels like it is a compromise now.
I think you have lost the point ... we both know he would have also loved a manual one. Has Michael taken over your log in or something

FCA should not be forcing owners to compromise. Anyway I've lost interest ... some here it appears would buy any old rubbish as long as it had an Alfa Romeo badge, whether it had what they wanted or not ... weird. Must be absolutely loaded.
Pete

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post #580 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by PSk View Post
I think you have lost the point ... we both know he would have also loved a manual one. Has Michael taken over your log in or something

FCA should not be forcing owners to compromise. Anyway I've lost interest ... some here it appears would buy any old rubbish as long as it had an Alfa Romeo badge, whether it had what they wanted or not ... weird. Must be absolutely loaded.
Pete
But you won't buy any new cars.

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post #581 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 06:26 AM
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@alfisti164l, my fetish is a station wagon. I dumped my 2007 Audi Avant with an MT6 this past November and picked up a 2018 Allroad. I really thought I could get used to the gearbox, but I am struggling with it. It also has paddle shifts. I have driven it in all modes and just can't seem to get used to it. I think the gearbox is just as high tech as that which is in the Giulia, but I am just really turned off with it. This is my first automatic.

I just don't see the manufacturers making a manual gear box for much longer. Demand is decreasing and safety regulations are increasing. Remember, in the US, both the automatic and manual versions of the car have to be crash tested. This adds to the costs of production and most companies can't justify the expense just to sell a few cars.
This is just a holdover from driving manual gearboxes all that time. When I bought my first automatic, just a 6 spd, I was sold on the acceptability because it had a manual mode. After a few weeks I found it completely unnecessary to try to manually shift the transmission. With an 8 spd it is just absurd to manually shift. Most amusing is the criticism that with an automatic you don't know which gear you're in. It doesn't matter, the transmission is automatic. Always in the correct gear.

Audi fits the same ZF 8 spd to its automatic equipped cars. Each car maker is free to modify ZF standard software and most do to some degree, especially in sport mode.

The one drawback to using only D rather than S is modern fuel economy rules require that D shift early to save fuel and reduce CO2 emissions. Using S will reproduce a more manual shift experience but will use a lot more fuel most of the time. I hardly use S either and my Jaguar has a dynamic mode which delivers almost full manual control to the driver. I never use it.

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post #582 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 06:54 AM
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This is just a holdover from driving manual gearboxes all that time.
It's not a holdover, it's preference. You just refuse to accept what folks are writing it their posts that they have a preference.


You won't change my mind, so please hang it up. Actually, I will. It's time to move on to something more interesting.

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post #583 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 09:07 AM
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Whew, I seem to have ignited something... Yes of course I would have bought the manual version if it was available. I believe it is only available in the diesel in Europe if I am not mistaken? But as you pointed out, that consideration is a moot point and I bought the one I bought because it WAS available and I really liked it. Ossodiseppia, I'm going to be selling my 2005 S4 Avant MT soon if you're tired of the Allroad's automatic...

I had a Jaguar XE rental this weekend for car week in Monterey and it didn't even COMPARE to Giulia. One of the biggest reasons was the transmission response. I think it is very similar to the 8-Spd unit used in the Alfa, but it is all about the programming these days, and Alfa's is leaps and bounds ahead. Perhaps you're running into the same issue with your Audi?

As for the take rate of a potential manual being higher among American customers, I believe you're right on that. The necessary accompanying event would have to be dealership distribution of manuals to Alfa dealers around the country. Even manufacturers that sell manuals don't send the cars to the dealers and you basically have to special order. I walked into an Audi dealership last year to look for a new A4 with a MT and was basically told that I had to special order. I talked to a guy who just had a similar experience at the BMW dealership for the new 3er. The take rate is really low, but in my opinion the manufacturers are largely to blame just because of their distribution policies. It becomes in a way a self-fulfilling prophesy: e.g. "no one wants manuals so we will not supply them" leading to "no one bought manuals so we will not supply them" and so on until they completely die off. Most customers walk into the dealership wanting to buy a car that day or the next, and few are willing to custom order and wait months and months. In the end they are subject to the inventory on the dealer's lots, and that 99.9% of the time does NOT include manual transmission cars in the USA.

Finally, I spoke to the regional representative of Alfa at the dealership and he stated that there was some issue with passing the crash test on the manual. Apparently the feet of the dummies were being negatively impacted in a way that didn't happen on the automatic. This does seem very far-fetched and rather easy to solve, but I'm just relaying what I heard from him and from other personnel in the dealership. I made sure to let them know that if they do somehow manage to start passing, I'll be the first in line for a trade-in on my Giulia for a new 6-Spd model no matter what the cost.

I do love my new Giulia, and I still believe it is the best automatic I have ever driven. Go check one out for yourself and see what you think. That's what really pushed me over the edge and into the car that I now love. I do still keep around a bunch of old Alfas for my MT fun and for all the times my wife won't let me drive Giulia. (Drove the GTV to work in Boulder today from Loveland, always a joy!)
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post #584 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 10:47 AM
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Well, FCA/Alfa really doesn't care what people want, only what they want to sell to them. I've owned nothing but Alfas since the late 60's, and I've never ever been asked as to what I would want if Alfa introduced a new car. They could care less, as Alfa owners of the past do not fit their new customer demographics at all. In general, owners of older Alfas in the US are separate from FCA, and should accept that.

As with the preferences I may have had for what my life was, is, and will be, they are my choices, regardless of the pressures from others, and I prefer to not buy something I do not want. The new Alfas (yes, I've driven the new Giulia, and yes, it would be entirely adequate for basic transportation) do not meet my standards/criteria for spending that amount of money on a new car based on my preferences. Sorry, FCA, at this time you do not measure up.
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post #585 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 08:22 AM
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This is just a holdover from driving manual gearboxes all that time. When I bought my first automatic, just a 6 spd, I was sold on the acceptability because it had a manual mode. After a few weeks I found it completely unnecessary to try to manually shift the transmission. With an 8 spd it is just absurd to manually shift. Most amusing is the criticism that with an automatic you don't know which gear you're in. It doesn't matter, the transmission is automatic. Always in the correct gear.

Audi fits the same ZF 8 spd to its automatic equipped cars. Each car maker is free to modify ZF standard software and most do to some degree, especially in sport mode.

The one drawback to using only D rather than S is modern fuel economy rules require that D shift early to save fuel and reduce CO2 emissions. Using S will reproduce a more manual shift experience but will use a lot more fuel most of the time. I hardly use S either and my Jaguar has a dynamic mode which delivers almost full manual control to the driver. I never use it.
It's truly remarkable that you, in a previous post, think you're "encouraging" people to think this through -- because then they'll come to the "right" conclusion that they're being blockheads (yes, you've called us that several times). That you actually think we haven't thought this through is astounding, among other things.

You. Don't Get. It. We DON'T CARE that the auto can do the job "better." Your amusement at people saying that one reason they don't like automatics is because you don't know what gear you're in. I'm at least as amused that you don't get why that's an issue. The gear I'm in is interesting to me. Shifting the gears is enjoyable to me. It's part of feeling connected to the car. I like to know what gear I'm in. With a manual, I always know. With the auto, even in manual mode, I have to look at the dash display to know what gear I'm in. I don't like having to do that. To be clear, Michael, it is my prerogative not to like that. When I want to shift, for example, into 2nd gear, with a manual 'box 2nd gear is always in the same place -- I simply move the gear lever to that slot. No matter whether the car had been in 3rd, 4th, or whatever gear, 2nd is always in the same place. With the auto, I have to look at the display to know what gear the car is currently in, and then decide how many times I have to pull the paddle to get 2nd. That is less enjoyable to me. Of course, you think I'm being a blockhead and the automatic would simply find 2nd on its own, but I DON'T CARE because no matter how well it does its job, I find that BORING. Technically impressive, but BORING. I bought an Alfa Romeo to NOT be bored.

I have ZERO interest in the automatic shifting automatically. It's very good at it, but it is NOT always in the right gear -- it is not capable of seeing ahead and anticipating road or traffic conditions. More importantly, it cannot know what is in my head. At best, I find letting the auto shift itself boring. So I shift it myself. That I find enjoyable, and the beautifully done aluminum paddles with their well-judged action and feel make a vital difference. That said, I would prefer a manual by an enormous margin.

I am among those who ultimately bought a new Giulia in spite of it being auto-only. I would have bought one immediately upon its intro had it been available with a manual 'box. Even though I now own a Giulia, this thread IS THE BUSINESS CASE for a manual Giulia that FCA (and you) refuse to acknowledge exists.
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