Want manual giulia.... - Page 37 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #541 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by sportiva View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgAba...CarsonAutobahn

I would like a manual please just so I have complete controll
No longer necessary with the computer controlled lockup clutch in the newer automatics.

The only advantage a foot operated clutch has over the new automatics is the ability to slip the clutch. This is essential for standing starts if you have less than 300 ho and useful for starting off in very low grip road surfaces which computerized traction control makes unnecessary.

Automatics still cannot really do standing starts perfectly without the feature of launch control, takes away from the driver's ability in that way.

So depending on your definition of "complete control" an automatic will do the job.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
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post #542 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 01:44 PM
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Bureaucratic "creep" afflicts many large companies. Actually, that the new Giuila is so good, is a breakout from "creep", which had prevailed at Alfa for so long. The 105 Sedan was uniquely designed by a team with extraordinary experience in designing race cars.
Then production engineers gained control with their front-wheel-drive cars.
That Fiat decided to "get it right" and assigned two Ferrari guys to head up the design team is a miracle.
It is a pity that the Giulia does not include the option of a manual.
Perhaps the "creeps' are in the government side making it to difficult to include an option to satisfy a limited demand?
Without disputing your remark about the 105 (and earlier versions of the same cars originally designed in the 1950's) I would include the period right up to and including the " Alfetta" series as marking the period when the engineers ran the designs at Alfa. The transaxle Alfetta based cars were crazy to manufacture from a financial perspective and despite the build quality were very good value for money as anyone who still owns one can attest to. The poor profitability of such expensive designs no doubt contributed to Alfa's takeover by FIAT Group, that and the crazy idea to build the Sud actually in the sud....

As for the fwd cars remember that FIAT acquired Lancia from whom they acquired their fwd expertise and Lancia was most definitely an engineers company. Alfa benefitted from that expertise. Alfa built only excellent driving fwd cars including the 75, the 164 and the various Suds which we never got, more's the pity as they were truly wonderful little machines in the finest Lancia tradition.

The rot set in for FIAT Group when the Alfa 159 came out in association with the stillborn deal with GM. Marchionne's business acumen later saved Alfa from the bean counters, a little ironic since Sergio was just a bean counter (and a lawyer, and an MBA finance guy, a business genius actually).

So, to decry Alfa's achievement with the Giulia because FCA won't accept losing money making the very few manual shift version that might actually sell risks making a bit of a mockery of the financial skills of the guy who made it happen.

As I have said before FCA will certainly make a manual shift Giulia if there is an actual market case for doing so. Right now there is no such market case. And the ZF 8 spd is just such a great transmission it is difficult to see the total market for Giulias will ever grow large enough to justify devoting production line to building any manual shift versions. Certainly FCA will not do so if the automatic versions continue to sell in the relatively small numbers to date.

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White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new

Last edited by Michael Smith; 08-25-2018 at 01:53 PM.
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post #543 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 02:26 PM
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Hi Michael, as I stated some time ago, WE UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION. This discussion is for others that WANT A MANUAL TRANSMISSION. Please stop hitting us over the head with your opinion. We understand your position - I'm repeating this so YOU will understand.


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post #544 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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PDK vs Manual

.....putting yourselves in other people shoes, try it as it’s a character building exercise.


1966 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce - slightly modified!
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post #545 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Manuals are safer!

One aspect that has not been outlined in this tread is that manuals are safer......

Who would agree with me that if all drivers drove manuals there would be less time and opportunity to play on their mobile phones whilst driving??
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post #546 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 03:36 PM
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More dangerous (debatable though) is drivers attitudes to the main controls change; the accelerator becomes a go switch while the brake is a stop switch ... with a disconnect to any understanding on what is really going on.
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post #547 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 03:42 PM
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Interesting idea but I don’t think anything would stop idiots from handling their phone whilst driving.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), son’s girlfiend’s car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (son’s new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #548 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
More dangerous (debatable though) is drivers attitudes to the main controls change; the accelerator becomes a go switch while the brake is a stop switch ... with a disconnect to any understanding on what is really going on.
Pete
The vast majority of drivers have always been like that in my experience. Familiarity with the machine has never been part of driving instruction unless people were taught by the army or an ex army driver as in the case of my son and daughter and myself. I also grew up with mechanics and passed my knowledge onto my kids.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), son’s girlfiend’s car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (son’s new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #549 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 04:32 PM
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When I first took driving lessons in high school, when we first started to drive the 59 Ford four door sedan with a "three on a tree" manual, the instructor told me that he thought I had been driving for some time before since the shifting was so easy to get right from the first day. Told him that this was the first time I had ever driven any car, let alone a manual. Been so easy and fun ever since.

As far as the screens and phones in newer cars being a distraction, we rode in a new Tesla S with the 17 inch screen in the dash. I asked the driver if the big screen with all the control icons was a distraction. He said, oh, no way, as he weaved back and forth on the road, trying to hit several hvac or radio icons with a finger, looking over at the screen instead of the road. Ack, we said. Phones, of course they are dangerous things to have in cars, people being who/what they are. One has to practice very defensive driving every minute.

Plus, the darn Tesla S, although a very nice car otherwise, is always on line 24 hrs a day. Don't like that, and the new cars coming out are becoming the same way. Not my bag, although many young types do not care at all.

Del

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 08-25-2018 at 04:36 PM.
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post #550 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 10:04 AM
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Have fun reading this ad from 1974. Look at the 4th paragraph...(Del please try not to have an aneurysm )

https://autoweek.com/article/classic...gends-not-cars
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post #551 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 10:57 AM
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Exactly. I think I actually have a copy of that ad in my stack of old Alfa ads and brochures.

This is something Michael either grew out of, or forgot. Me, I'm an oldie, and was raised on basically nothing but Alfas (and the occasional real Mini at first), and have never forgotten what it was like to start enjoying them for what they were. Just like the ad says. Maybe Alfa has forgotten it as well, at least to some extent.

I remember my father, a GM man, shaking his head when I first drove home with my spotless 64 Giulia Sprint GT, he saying that the **** Eyetalian thing would wear out in 20k miles. Needless to say, his GM cars were always falling apart, and I put ~260k miles on the GT before I sold it, to buy another Alfa, of course.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #552 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sketchl View Post
.....putting yourselves in other people shoes, try it as it’s a character building exercise.

Oh that t-shirt



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post #553 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Oh that t-shirt


Not sure of that T-shirt!! But one that always amuses me is.........
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post #554 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Del View Post
Exactly. I think I actually have a copy of that ad in my stack of old Alfa ads and brochures.

This is something Michael either grew out of, or forgot. Me, I'm an oldie, and was raised on basically nothing but Alfas (and the occasional real Mini at first), and have never forgotten what it was like to start enjoying them for what they were. Just like the ad says. Maybe Alfa has forgotten it as well, at least to some extent.

I remember my father, a GM man, shaking his head when I first drove home with my spotless 64 Giulia Sprint GT, he saying that the **** Eyetalian thing would wear out in 20k miles. Needless to say, his GM cars were always falling apart, and I put ~260k miles on the GT before I sold it, to buy another Alfa, of course.
While I did learn to shift without using the clutch (when the clutch hydraulics were failing) I couldn't help but be impressed watching Kimi Raikonnen start off in a modern manual shift Giulietta without using the clutch ! !!!! It formed part of Sky Sports coverage of the Belgian GP involving Kimi and Seb driving together in a dual control car. Illuminating to watch what very highly skilled racing drivers can do with an ordinary car. The demo involved one Ferrari driver operating the accelerator and the other the brake and the clutch while negotiating an impressive slalom course. Kimi went first and offered to show Seb how to select first gear and drive off without using the clutch.

Looking for that video I found this:

http://www.thedrive.com/watch-this/1...a-quadrifoglio

For clarity, I own two manual transmission cars: the nearly 30 year old Alfa which I would not have bought with an automatic of that era and a 2013 BRZ with a pretty short and close ratio manual transmission and Torsen diff. My driving skills applied to manual transmission operation remain sharp, though I could not easily match Kimi Raikonnen's trick driving.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new

Last edited by Michael Smith; 08-26-2018 at 02:19 PM.
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post #555 of 884 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Gordon Raymond View Post
Hi Michael, as I stated some time ago, WE UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION. This discussion is for others that WANT A MANUAL TRANSMISSION. Please stop hitting us over the head with your opinion. We understand your position - I'm repeating this so YOU will understand.
I've ceased "advocating" for automatic Giulias, although I do not think I ever actually did that. I am now merely correcting misinformation about the differences between a manual and an automatic transmission equipped Giulia which I suggest is relevant to the topic.

My point all along has been to encourage potential owners of a Giulia to more carefully consider why they might think they want a manual shift especially if the absence of that option may lead them to reject buying the car entirely.

My Road to Damascus in this respect was arduous and I sincerely believe others can benefit from my sharing the revelation I experienced in 2008 when I very nearly rejected buying the then newly released Jaguar XF because I "always drove a manual transmission" up to that point (over 40 years of owning nothing but manual shift cars) . Best car I have owned apart from my current more up to date XF.

The Giulia is a truly remarkable high performance car not hindered by the transmission in any respect at all. If you want to drive a new Alfa you will have to change your mind about the suitability of the automatic transmission, no matter which model appeals to you.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
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