Want manual giulia.... - Page 36 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #526 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-24-2018, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Max Pershyn View Post
Manual gearbox is available for MY19, take a look on diesels (136-190 HP)
http://www.alfaromeopress.com/action...&subtype=price
OK, you are right. That must be available only for the Italian market. In Germany there are no MT6 in the list.

Saluti da Germania

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post #527 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-24-2018, 08:59 AM
Del
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Our Norwegian exchange student learned to drive here in my 91S, but commented that she didn't understand why anyone would drive a manual since it was hard to learn to drive. Well, when she got back to Norway and could afford to buy a car, she bought a manual shift car because they were less expensive at the time. She wrote later saying, that she would never drive an automatic because the manual was so much more fun to drive. Had to laugh at that.

Evidently, diesels are on their way out in Europe, as cities and countries reassess their impact on the envirionment. I've read that there are basically no or few new European diesel models coming down the pike for the future.

Del

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #528 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-24-2018, 10:07 AM
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Particulate filters solve the main ICE pollution problem remaining. There is a perceived NOx problem that is illusory. I predict EV and PHEV will completely fail despite government support. I predict even further efficiencies will be found in the burning of fossil fuels for powering our economic well being. The ICE powered automobile will be the transport of choice for decades to come, long after the current crop of incompetent politicians (poss. redundant?) is dead and gone.

The whole pollution problem in this area has already been solved with further improvements being made every year. Now environmental poisoning by other chemicals, that's not so interesting to the general public and not very much is being done about that far more serious problem.

Oddly, what's now hitting the headlines is a goofy fascination with wood burning stoves. Apparently the chic and up to date environ mentals think these are environmentally sound but nothing could be further from the truth. Pollution from wood burning stoves is a serious problem in London for example, far exceeding any pollution from motor transport.

The world is full of well meaning idiots .....

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post #529 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-24-2018, 11:24 AM
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Here is an article which explains a little more on the subject. Take it for what you will. You may disagree. I do not regard the article as complete or even 100% accurate, but does represent at least some scientific thought:

http://theconversation.com/fact-chec...ng-than-petrol

I do agree about wood fired stoves, etc. While I may like the smell of a nice campfire, burning wood in any shape or form has no place in populated areas, thus burn ban regulations. Under certain circumstance, even sole heat source wood burning stoves and fireplaces are not allowed to be used.

And coal? Phhht.

Del

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 08-24-2018 at 11:26 AM.
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post #530 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-24-2018, 02:19 PM
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Corrected link: https://theconversation.com/fact-che...rol-cars-76241

Pete

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post #531 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-24-2018, 03:07 PM
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Thanks. Funny, the link I put up worked when I tried it, but fails now.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #532 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-24-2018, 05:58 PM
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Kinda odd that the manufacturers are pushing fancier and fancier automatic transmissions when the only market that actually wants them is America.

Bit like the autonomous car, when did producers stop asking the buyers what we actually wanted, and move to the model of ramming it up our backsides whether we wanted it or not?
Pete

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post #533 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-24-2018, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Kinda odd that the manufacturers are pushing fancier and fancier automatic transmissions when the only market that actually wants them is America.

Bit like the autonomous car, when did producers stop asking the buyers what we actually wanted, and move to the model of ramming it up our backsides whether we wanted it or not?
Pete
Manufacturers by definition sell only what customers want to buy, in a relatively free market. It is not correct to assert that only America buys automatics, America invented the automatic and that has been the most common transmission purchased for many decades. The automatic has become very popular in other markets and those markets have been captured by extensive innovation by transmission makers, principally the giant ZF.

There are now only three reasons a buyer might actually demand a manual shift: price, obsession with vehicle weight or personal taste. The automatic is now superior in all other respects and customers the world over are buying them in preference to manuals.

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Last edited by Michael Smith; 08-25-2018 at 01:56 PM.
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post #534 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-24-2018, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Del View Post
Here is an article which explains a little more on the subject. Take it for what you will. You may disagree. I do not regard the article as complete or even 100% accurate, but does represent at least some scientific thought:

http://theconversation.com/fact-chec...ng-than-petrol

I do agree about wood fired stoves, etc. While I may like the smell of a nice campfire, burning wood in any shape or form has no place in populated areas, thus burn ban regulations. Under certain circumstance, even sole heat source wood burning stoves and fireplaces are not allowed to be used.

And coal? Phhht.
The research on NOx health effects is highly suspect and nobody has tried to tease out the effects of particulates from possible effects of NOx. It seems clear that NOx produced by cars, in the absence of the effects of particulates, has not been shown to represent a significant health hazard beyond mild discomfort from high concentrations.

The latest diesels are very low NOx producers. Most perceived problems from NOx arise during temperature inversions and there is little evidence that reducing NOx will have much effect on the serious pollution concentrations caused by such inversions. If you live where inversions are common, as I do, it is clear (har har) that NOx gives an ugly colour to the air but it is far from clear that this is a primary cause of respiratory effects independent of other pollutants restrained by inversions. London and LA, Mexico City, Beijing and other pollution hotspots suffer frequently from inversions.

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post #535 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 01:59 AM
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personal taste.
And that is what most humans want, i.e. to be allowed their personal taste ... something that FCA in America has taken away. Agree? If you don't then you must work for the FCA.

Just because automatics are finally getting good doesn't mean many want them. The answer of course is for the population to say NO, and not buy them and stick to older, and IMO considerably superior (minus the humans are useless sensors, etc.) automobiles.

BTW I read somewhere that the people who control vehicle safety, etc. want to ban the motorcycle to save a few lives. I say **** off. Just like nobody should ban swimming even though a number of people drown every year, nobody should ban an adult who has made a conscience decision to purchase a motorcycle and put themselves at risk. Living life is all about challenging oneself and enjoyment, not just becoming old. The FCA just trying to sell automatics Alfa Romeos in America shows that they do not understand their clients but also smacks of over controlling BS, like banning motorcycles. It actually annoys me that some have given up and bought an automatic Guilia when that is not what they wanted in some BS about ensuring Alfa Romeo survive. **** that, either Alfa Romeo makes what WE want or bloody well close the doors and call it a day!
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Last edited by PSk; 08-25-2018 at 02:11 AM.
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post #536 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 02:28 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgAba...CarsonAutobahn

I would like a manual please just so I have complete controll

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post #537 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 05:02 AM
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How do you know some have given up and bought an auto when they wanted a manual Pete? Forgive me, but this sounds like the Holden V8 fans who think the majority of buyers wanted V8s when in fact it was a long way from the truth. As I have said, all six of our family Alfas are manuals and are all fun to drive, but for me the unavailability of a manual Giulia wouldn’t be an issue if I had the money. There are a lot of other things to enjoy about them.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), son’s girlfiend’s car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (son’s new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #538 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 07:19 AM
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post #539 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
And that is what most humans want, i.e. to be allowed their personal taste ... something that FCA in America has taken away. Agree? If you don't then you must work for the FCA.

Just because automatics are finally getting good doesn't mean many want them. The answer of course is for the population to say NO, and not buy them and stick to older, and IMO considerably superior (minus the humans are useless sensors, etc.) automobiles.

BTW I read somewhere that the people who control vehicle safety, etc. want to ban the motorcycle to save a few lives. I say **** off. Just like nobody should ban swimming even though a number of people drown every year, nobody should ban an adult who has made a conscience decision to purchase a motorcycle and put themselves at risk. Living life is all about challenging oneself and enjoyment, not just becoming old. The FCA just trying to sell automatics Alfa Romeos in America shows that they do not understand their clients but also smacks of over controlling BS, like banning motorcycles. It actually annoys me that some have given up and bought an automatic Guilia when that is not what they wanted in some BS about ensuring Alfa Romeo survive. **** that, either Alfa Romeo makes what WE want or bloody well close the doors and call it a day!
Pete
Bureaucratic "creep" afflicts many large companies. Actually, that the new Giuila is so good, is a breakout from "creep", which had prevailed at Alfa for so long. The 105 Sedan was uniquely designed by a team with extraordinary experience in designing race cars.
Then production engineers gained control with their front-wheel-drive cars.
That Fiat decided to "get it right" and assigned two Ferrari guys to head up the design team is a miracle.
It is a pity that the Giulia does not include the option of a manual.
Perhaps the "creeps' are in the government side making it to difficult to include an option to satisfy a limited demand?
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post #540 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-25-2018, 01:31 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgAba...CarsonAutobahn

I would like a manual please just so I have complete controll
No longer necessary with the computer controlled lockup clutch in the newer automatics.

The only advantage a foot operated clutch has over the new automatics is the ability to slip the clutch. This is essential for standing starts if you have less than 300 ho and useful for starting off in very low grip road surfaces which computerized traction control makes unnecessary.

Automatics still cannot really do standing starts perfectly without the feature of launch control, takes away from the driver's ability in that way.

So depending on your definition of "complete control" an automatic will do the job.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
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