Want manual giulia.... - Page 35 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #511 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 08:39 PM
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That's a judgement call.
Efficiency, you can judge.
Satisfaction, you can't. Except your own.
Really.
Each to their own.
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post #512 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PSk View Post
I'm positive Michael is trolling us, and he must be pissing himself. I really hope that is what he is doing as otherwise I'm at a loss.

What I really don't understand though is he apparently owns a 5 speed manual 164 and yet you can buy automatic 164's ... heck I've even driven one and it was a nice car. Automatic even suits such a large sedan where cruising is the go.

The 7 seconds faster around the 'ring, surely proves he is trolling ... I wonder if he has tyre warmers so he can get that competitive grocery run time ... hahaha, poor guy
Pete
Even a blind squirrel finds a few nuts....

The 164 came with the ZF four speed automatic. ZF later built a five speed automatic only for longitudinal applications though. Those were the inferior automatics I was taking about. The manual shift was far superior in performance to the four speed automatic. The five speed would not have been much better even if it had been available which it wasn't.

For the six speed ZF hit it out of the park with a brand new design and a computer controlled lockup clutch which worked on the top five ratios.

The later ZF eight speed is another quantum leap higher up the superiority scale.

The automatic equipped Giulia QF is a full seven seconds faster around the Nurburgring than the manual version with the same driver, Alfa test driver. That's a lot. Watching the video you cannot argue the test driver is having less fun with the automatic.

I owned manual shifts only until the ZF 6 spd came out. Since then I bought a manual shift BRZ because it performed better. Had I known I would be fitting an Edelbrock supercharger to the BRZ it'd have an automatic. I've bought three automatics to the one manual. They are much better to drive.

I've driven a manual shift race car and a sequential semi automatic race car. I'd choose a fully automatic race car in a heartbeat. There is no question you can be a faster driver with an automatic.

Both Jackie Stewart and Martin Brundle endorse use if fully automatic shifting for very high performance driving.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new

Last edited by Michael Smith; 08-20-2018 at 09:02 PM.
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post #513 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranz View Post
That's a judgement call.
Efficiency, you can judge.
Satisfaction, you can't. Except your own.
Really.
Each to their own.
But until you try one you'll never know. One short test drive isn't sufficient to appreciate the huge leap forward represented by the ZF 6 spd automatic.

I was sceptical. I test drove the 2009 Jaguar XF for over an hour before grudgingly accepting that the automatic transmission was the better transmission.

Mind you I also think manual gearboxes in road cars developing more than 300 bhp are unsuitable. With that much power a manual gearbox isn't achieving anything useful no matter how satisfied the driver may convince himself he is.

Big power and a clutch are just not a sensible combination in a road car.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
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post #514 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post

... By all means buy yourself a manual gearbox equipped car, I did (although I did so only because the automatic version was deliberately handicapped by the factory specifying incorrect gearing specifically so it would be slower than the manual shift version!!!). Just don't do so under the illusion that it will produce a more satisfying driving existence than one of the new automatics. It just won't. Really.
Michael, oh Michael,

Remember that I own a Giulia -- a Ti Sport with, obviously, the ZF 8-speed auto. Because I could not get it with a manual. I know that it's an extraordinary transmission. Rest assured, I won't buy a manual "under the illusion that it will produce a more satisfying driving existence than one of the new automatics." I would enjoy my Giulia even more if it had a manual 'box. I will buy a manual again because it will, without any illusion, delusion, doubt, or question, produce a more satisfying driving existence. For me.

I own a car with over 300 hp (420 to be specific) with a manual. It's wonderful, and the manual 'box has a lot to do with its wonderfulness. There is NO WAY I'd own it with an automatic, even the greatest automatic in the whole wide world. I couldn't care less how much faster around the 'Ring it would be.

The only illusion here is that you think everyone gets satisfaction out of the very same things you do.

2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport Q4 Performance, 2005 Aston Martin Vanquish S, 2009 Aston Martin V8 Vantage, 1983 Saab 900 Turbo, 2007 Jaguar XJ8, 2018 Audi Q7 (wife's)

Last edited by Speedraser; 08-20-2018 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Typo
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post #515 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 10:39 PM
Del
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"Just don't do so under the illusion that it will produce a more satisfying driving existence than one of the new automatics. It just won't. Really"

Well, it is just more fun for many. It is. Really. I've driven the new Giulia, and yes, while it goes very well, it wasn't THAT much fun in comparison. Just gas pedal and brake for the most part.

Del

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #516 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 11:08 PM
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Guys Michael has stopped posting ...

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post #517 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 01:43 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Guys Michael has stopped posting ...

Pete
..........Not so sure about that Pete!



Here’s the opening clip to a recent movie with some great manual driving.......


1966 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce - slightly modified!
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post #518 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 01:47 AM
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Maybe his automatic posting machine is stuck in park

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post #519 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 06:18 AM
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I was a big critic of Alfa for not bringing the manual to the States. I truly believe that they botched it by first promising the manual and then secretly making it disappear without a true explanation.

Nevertheless, I bought a Giulia Ti Sport about 8 months ago and really love it, even without the manual. Perhaps the manual would be better, but maybe not. The 8-speed automatic is really good and responsive--better than all of the BMWs I've owned over the past several years.

I still like driving my Spider with its mammoth shifter throw. A manual Giulia would have been something completely different, but I forgive Alfa for its missteps towards its faithful enthusiasts during the rollout.

Rich

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post #520 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 06:33 AM
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Guys Michael has stopped posting ...

Pete
Well now I have. To this thread at any rate. Topic seems fully aired.

See you at the next stop light GP.....

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
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post #521 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
Well now I have. To this thread at any rate. Topic seems fully aired.

See you at the next stop light GP.....

I'll be in Whistler in a weeks time and might just come across and take you up on that stop light GP.........

1966 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce - slightly modified!
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post #522 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by gta776126 View Post
But with MY19 you can only order AT8 gearboxes . Manual shifters are history even here in Europe. For The whole range.
The V6 Qs you find in Germany at some dealers are production 2017 or even 2016!
Manual gearbox is available for MY19, take a look on diesels (136-190 HP)
http://www.alfaromeopress.com/action...&subtype=price
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post #523 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 11:04 PM
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Manual gearbox is available for MY19, take a look on diesels (136-190 HP)
http://www.alfaromeopress.com/action...&subtype=price
I find this somewhat strange. A diesel engine suits an automatic transmission better than a petrol engine IMO.

But I did own a Mazda 6 diesel 6-speed manual ... other than the 156v6 the best 4 door car I have ever owned, and to be fair here it was probably a better car than the 156v6 ... but not an Alfa Romeo ...

I can completely understand why Americans like automatics, even so called car enthusiasts, because they have a strange obsession with the v8 engine which is all about torque not revs ... so who needs a gearbox if torque does it for you. Doesn't do it for me though, and a v8 just has 8 cylinders ... whoopie
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Last edited by PSk; 08-23-2018 at 11:06 PM.
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post #524 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-24-2018, 03:20 AM Thread Starter
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I find this somewhat strange. A diesel engine suits an automatic transmission better than a petrol engine IMO
Ciao Pete, please realise that Europeans mainly buy diesels so of course manuals are going to be made as an option.
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post #525 of 883 (permalink) Old 08-24-2018, 08:56 AM
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Yes, Americans buy automatics. However... American enthusiasts want manuals, probably more than most other countries. That’s why BMW made the E60 M5 with a manual — only for the US market.

2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport Q4 Performance, 2005 Aston Martin Vanquish S, 2009 Aston Martin V8 Vantage, 1983 Saab 900 Turbo, 2007 Jaguar XJ8, 2018 Audi Q7 (wife's)
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