Want manual giulia.... - Page 15 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #211 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by nealric View Post
There's some talk that the manual Giulia was actually federalized before FCA decided not to bring it. It's unclear whether that is the case. In any event, it's irrelevant to the talk of a manual swap.
Not in California. Aren't other states pretty firm on no emissions modifications? Some Canadian provinces don't allow it.

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post #212 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 04:04 PM
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"And just btw, the manual shift Mini is slower than the automatic."

Lol, immaterial in even normal semi-sane sporty driving, but I appreciate your like of that particular characteristic of quick shifting. Some might want it for stop light drag racing.
Del, these new gearboxes go way further than that. The McLaren intuitively downshifts if the driver brakes for a corner, for example. Some Jaguars do it also. All Jaguars will hold the selected gear if wheel slip is detected while cornering.

The latest automatics are quicker everywhere and at all times.

The point I'm trying to make is the newest automatics are more enjoyable to drive than any manual shift. I only have one automatic (Jaguar 8 spd ZF automatic) and three manuals. My favourite is my Jaguar, hands down. If I drive my Subaru BRZ I know it will be a lot of work , all the time (mind you it has a Supercharger and develops 250 bhp driving some 1200 kg).

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post #213 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 04:13 PM
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post #214 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post

The point I'm trying to make is the newest automatics are more enjoyable to drive than any manual shift.
It's in the eye of the beholder. I believe they are more enjoyable to drive for you. They may not be for others.

I love linguini with garlic and oil sauce. I find it enjoyable. My best friend finds it detestable. Are they wrong? Am I wrong? Are we both wrong?
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post #215 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 05:18 PM
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Indeed. I like a good pepperoni pizza with anchovies on it. My wife detests the thing, won't come close. To each our own. We each get our own little pizzas, whatever we each enjoy the most.

"The point I'm trying to make is the newest automatics are more enjoyable to drive than any manual shift"

Michael has his preferences, and we accept that the above is his studied opinion. Trouble is, his likes may not be ours, contrary to what he wishes for and thinks is the "modern" way to go.

In comparison to his liking the transmission computer to do all the work with a minimum of driver input, I enjoy preferring to physically doing the up and downshifting, as a sensual activity using my reflexes, and learned procedures in my brain. To me, it is much more enjoyable, and I'm NOT alone in thinking just that. Michael is just not into that. Peer pressure as such doesn't work on me (that's why I still drive an Alfa in the first place, lol, now for 50+ years).

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 11-07-2017 at 05:24 PM.
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post #216 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
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Just dismiss “Michael Smith” as he’s been trolling this thread with his repeative BS.

The simple story is No Manual Giulia = No Purchase

1966 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce - slightly modified!
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post #217 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 05:59 PM
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Well, I don't mind Michael at all, enjoy some of his postings, informative. I'm sure he is one of the nice guys in the forum. He just has some different likes than a few of us, and isn't afraid to state them. He does have to realize that not everyone will buy his beliefs. No problem there, though.

However, I agree, no manual, no purchase. It's Fiat/Alfa's problem, not mine, as I have very nice well running manual transmission 94LS and 91S which I am very pleased with.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 11-07-2017 at 10:38 PM.
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post #218 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Del View Post
I enjoy preferring to physically doing the up and downshifting, as a sensual activity using my reflexes, and learned procedures in my brain.
Sir you have a way with words. I would never have thought to describe it as a sensual activity but when I think about it...
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post #219 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 10:19 PM
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On a medium speed open and swoopy country road, one can almost do a dance with proper light fingertip shifting and the three pedal footwork, on and off the gas, revving into the best Alfa sound, perhaps lightly touching the brakes, up and down through several gears as the road requests, and the car ends up feeling alive but never forced, with the right sounds.

Not crazy fast, but just with enough speed to make the car feel nimble in the curves, the driver in smooth mechanical symbiosis with the car in it's reactions. Smoothness can be your friend. It feels/sounds just right.

These roads and experiences are not common, but one finds the proper roads now and then, hopefully clear enough so that the experience can develop, at least for a short while (until the passenger begins to comment, lol). I remember every one of those sublime drives in each Alfa through the years.
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Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 11-07-2017 at 10:26 PM.
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post #220 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Sketchl View Post
Just dismiss “Michael Smith” as he’s been trolling this thread with his repeative BS.

The simple story is No Manual Giulia = No Purchase
Ah yes, the dreaded troll accusation. I have noted that this epithet is only applied when the poster accused disagrees with you.

There is no point conversing with someone who thinks exactly as you do.

Indeed, the etymology of conversation suggests otherwise.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
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post #221 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gepetto View Post
It's in the eye of the beholder. I believe they are more enjoyable to drive for you. They may not be for others.

I love linguini with garlic and oil sauce. I find it enjoyable. My best friend finds it detestable. Are they wrong? Am I wrong? Are we both wrong?
Detestable is pretty strong stuff. I rarely find any food detestable.

And yes, you are completely wrong to reject a new technology without even trying to appreciate its virtues.

It is a symptom of aging to prefer only the tried and true stuff. Well, and toddlers of course but that's an evolutionary protection from accident.

That promoted my reference to outdated technologies that, unbelievably, some people still enjoy, like sailing or rowing, riding a horse, or driving an old fashioned car.

Those of you who pine for a manual shift Giulia are just not keeping up. It won't be long before only the dedicated classic car enthusiast will be driving a manual shift. The question you should be asking yourself is why you think you want an up to the minute modern car saddled by obsolete drivetrain technology?

What posters to this thread are really saying is they want an old Alfa. Well, newsflash Alfa isn't going to build an out of date car. The one they are building is exceeding all previous sales volumes for any Alfa ever built. If you want a manual shift Alfa they are available but a like new one is very, very expensive.

I mean you can buy mine if you wish.

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White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new

Last edited by Michael Smith; 11-08-2017 at 04:34 AM.
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post #222 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
I mean you can buy mine if you wish.
Can we now argue if front-wheel drive is better than rear-wheel drive?
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post #223 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
Not in California. Aren't other states pretty firm on no emissions modifications? Some Canadian provinces don't allow it.
No state that I am aware of categorically bans changes to the ECU. There are CARB (California emissions authority) approved aftermarket forced induction kits.
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post #224 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
Detestable is pretty strong stuff. I rarely find any food detestable.

And yes, you are completely wrong to reject a new technology without even trying to appreciate its virtues.

It is a symptom of aging to prefer only the tried and true stuff. Well, and toddlers of course but that's an evolutionary protection from accident.

That promoted my reference to outdated technologies that, unbelievably, some people still enjoy, like sailing or rowing, riding a horse, or driving an old fashioned car.

Those of you who pine for a manual shift Giulia are just not keeping up. It won't be long before only the dedicated classic car enthusiast will be driving a manual shift. The question you should be asking yourself is why you think you want an up to the minute modern car saddled by obsolete drivetrain technology?

What posters to this thread are really saying is they want an old Alfa. Well, newsflash Alfa isn't going to build an out of date car. The one they are building is exceeding all previous sales volumes for any Alfa ever built. If you want a manual shift Alfa they are available but a like new one is very, very expensive.

I mean you can buy mine if you wish.
Wanting a manual is hardly limited to older folks. The average readership of sites like jalopnik is probably around 25-30, and it's full of people who prefer manuals. I don't think people are saying that the latest autos don't have virtues. I appreciate that I turned better lap times in a DCT-equipped BMW M3 than I would have in the manual- and I spent more time working on choosing a correct line rather than getting my shifts right. It's just that, at the end of the day, I would have rather driven home in a 6 speed manual version. You have to understand that some people just like what they like and there is no objective rational reason for it. If things were rational, the BMW X6 wouldn't exist, but it seems to be a good seller for the brand.

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Last edited by nealric; 11-08-2017 at 07:50 AM.
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post #225 of 884 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Del View Post
On a medium speed open and swoopy country road, one can almost do a dance with proper light fingertip shifting and the three pedal footwork, on and off the gas, revving into the best Alfa sound, perhaps lightly touching the brakes, up and down through several gears as the road requests, and the car ends up feeling alive but never forced, with the right sounds.

Not crazy fast, but just with enough speed to make the car feel nimble in the curves, the driver in smooth mechanical symbiosis with the car in it's reactions. Smoothness can be your friend. It feels/sounds just right.

These roads and experiences are not common, but one finds the proper roads now and then, hopefully clear enough so that the experience can develop, at least for a short while (until the passenger begins to comment, lol). I remember every one of those sublime drives in each Alfa through the years.
Indeed - it's for this reason that I generally take my Alfa out of the hellhole that is NYC and into Long Island, New Jersey, or "upstate" to find roads like that. Surprisingly, though, driving at night in NYC can sometimes be rewarding (there's usually no traffic). The Jackie Robinson Parkway comes to mind...
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