Test drove a Ti--not so impressed. What am I missing? - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 85 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 08:19 AM
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its important when every centimeter or meter can save someones life. Ofcourse there is also other factors which are important or more important and all of these combined together makes the brake distance.

"Where a standard system would be able to increase the brake pressure from zero to locking in 300 milliseconds, the Mk C1 can do it in 100 milliseconds, an improvement of 300 per cent.

“In a situation where every millisecond can be the difference between life and death that is vitally important. In combination with our latest third generation ABS, Mk C1 can cut the stopping distance from 62mph to zero by up to 1 metre. "
One meter in 62-0 distance is much less than the differences one would encounter by switching from an all-season to a summer tire or even a 20 degree road temperature difference. I suppose every bit helps, but this is more of an around the edges thing than a game changer. The Giulia does not have a stopping distance that is significantly different from its 3 series competitor, which does not have a similar system. Motor trend tested the 335i in 2013 at 108 feet to for 60-0. The only published number I could find on the base Giulia was 115 feet for 62-0. The Quad does the 60-0 in 102 due to better suspension and super-sticky tires, but the M3 has been tested at under 100.

I suppose my overall point is don't get too wrapped up in FCA's marketing speak. They've done some interesting things with the car with systems like these, but I wouldn't conclude it's vastly safer or better performing than its competitors based on the addition of systems like this.
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post #17 of 85 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 11:23 AM
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its not FCA speak, im sure they are better than normal brakes even the difference is small, and maybe those BMWs have more sticky tires and those magazine tests are not equal for all, even a small difference in friction in used surface makes that difference, there is so many factors that makes the brake distance, car weight etc. etc. test should be made in laboraratory conditions to make it equal. Im not sure why you dont agree it but Im off about this now. And nobody said its vastly superior, just that its slighly better system
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post #18 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-25-2017, 02:46 PM
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I test drove one, a TI with the performance package, back to back with a 2016 Golf R. I realize from outward appearances they're different classes, but in terms of performance, the Golf smoked the Alfa. There's no comparing the Audi/VW DSG to any other automanual on the market (Porsche PDK is basically the same system). The Giulia's autobox is certainly more responsive than the usual slushbox, but in the end it's still pushing power through a torque converter. The Golf is also a solid half second faster to 60, which isn't that big a deal, but it also just feels faster. The turbo really kicks you in the back when you bury your foot. The Golf's brakes were marginally better, although I didn't really get a chance to lay on them. The VW's NVH was almost incomparably better. I felt the Giulia was a little too noisy, although that might've been the all-season tires on 19" wheels. Too big for roads around here - I'd stick with the 18s and ride taller sidewalls for a bit less noise and a little more comfort. The VW seats were also more comfortable. The Giulia's seat was fine (the base model's are TERRIBLE however - the Sport or Luxury upgrade is absolutely worth it, and that was only based on about 10 minutes of seat time in the base) but didn't feel as though it had as much thigh and lumbar support. The VW's interior was also nicer (better materials, better fit and finish), although too dark for my taste. The Lusso light wood package makes a BIG difference in the Alfa. The Golf's back seat was also slightly more adult-friendly, and of course the hatch means it can tote more stuff.

Where the Alfa won out was the infotainment integration. The screen is a component of the design and not tacked on or glued in. The interface was also far and away better (say what you want about FCA products in general, but their system is just better than most). You also can't argue the car's looks. It's almost a perfect balance of understated and aggressive. I think it's going to age really nicely! The quality of the paint also seemed better in general. The car's steering is freaking flawless. Tight, communicative, and direct. All cars should turn this well. The balance was also ridiculously impressive. It never exhibited any tendency to "lose its ****" when I yanked the wheel with glee. It just hunkered down and turned in. And of course, there's the inherent Alfa-ness. For a boring segment (mid-size sedan) it's a unique animal. I think it would bring joy every day it's driven.

So that's where I am. Later this year or early next, do I get the Golf R, which is almost perfect in every way, or the Alfa Romeo Giulia, which is flawed in many ways but also sort of perfect?

This is a tough one. If it helps, talking with a consultant I know, the 1-year depreciation on the Alfa could bring a car with an original MSRP of $42,500, like the TI I drove, down to almost $30k, basing resale of single-year lease returns from Caddy, Audi, and Jaguar. BMW and Merc have higher resale but only thanks to the brand equity. Alfa will likely trend lower. The one-year old Golf R I drive, whcih has 12k miles, was stickered at its original MSRP of $39,800. That's sort of nutso.

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post #19 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-25-2017, 03:39 PM
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But the Golf R is a Volkswagen; the Toyota of European cars, bought by the 99% of the population of non-car people. Rather buy an old Beetle ...

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post #20 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-25-2017, 04:44 PM
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Yes. True. But the Golf R is a special car regardless the badge. Just the garden variety GTI is better driving than 95% of the cars sold today and I'd have no issues driving one every day.


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post #21 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-25-2017, 10:05 PM
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Well I now own a Ti and I guess it's just different strokes for different folks because I could not disagree more with Storsav about this car. My car is quick, fast and stops on a dime. The paddle shifters work great with lightning quick shifts, the steering is spot on and the controls are exactly where they should be, at your finger tips. The tan leather is gorgeous and the seat has adjustments for just about everything. It's rock solid and quiet but the run flats are a little harsher. All in all I couldn't be happier. Maybe Storsav should drive the QV, which will eat an M3's lunch.

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post #22 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-25-2017, 10:49 PM
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Looking back at OP's original assessment: "the GTI I test drove a few months back seemed sportier and easily just as fast"
I think the biggest reason he would make the comment was likely because the cars weren't driven hard enough. I recently switched from a GTI (6MT) to Giulia Ti, and there's no way the 2 cars can be dynamically comparable when it comes to handling and cornering at speeds. After driving the Giulia for a month, going back to the GTI everything feels much more sluggish and heavier. Ride quality in the GTI is considerably harsher too albeit having a smaller wheel size (17" vs. 19"). Rowing the 6MT is still fun, but honestly I didn't miss it as much as I would have thought.
Again just my own opinion, please don't take offense

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post #23 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-25-2017, 11:12 PM
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I do not think that comparing a VW with an Alfa is a fair comparison. I always believe that Alfa versus BMW is a good comparison. There are many good cars in the Alfa market and most of the cars are in the 50-85 K range. I think that the days of inexpensive sports cars are long gone just like starter housing.
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post #24 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 06:03 AM
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Well, it was a fair comparison for me because they're the two cars I'm most interested in buying next. Of course all of the real reviews will compare the Alfa to every other luxury marque. I'm really not at all interested in any of them, though. Maybe an Audi S3, but to be honest I'd rather have the Golf R. Better interior, less expensive, has a hatch, sleeper, but is mechanically 99.9% identical. In terms of performance they're also fairly similar, apart from the RWD vs Haldex thing (maybe comparing a 4Q would be a better straight up fight but given the choice I'd prefer RWD - less complicated) they're fairly similar. A 2 liter turbo four up front making 280 to 280 bhp, magnetic dampers with ride control, similar suspension geometry at all four corners, limited slip diff, four doors, European, and tuned for driving performance. The VW/Audi MQB platform is actually dimensionally similar to the Alfa's Giorgio platform, and both are modular (not that it matters to these specific cars). For me the performance is similar enough to be a wash. The real question is how would each handle my stupid commute every day, trudging along in gridlock in 100 degree heat? How comfortable would I be? The VW DSG reportedly doesn't like stop and go traffic, so maybe the Alfas traditional slushbox would be a better choice? But I think generally the VW is more comfortable, even with the kidney tickler bolsters. I really don't know. Hopefully I can talk a dealer into a 24 hour test drive when it's actually time later this year.


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post #25 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by chairmankaga View Post
There's no comparing the Audi/VW DSG to any other automanual on the market (Porsche PDK is basically the same system).
well Alfa TCT box was valued better in many reviews in time it was introduced, I dont know latest versions of DSG how good they are , and early DSGs were failure magnets.

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post #26 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 07:17 AM
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I think since 2013 it's been fairly bulletproof. I know the transmission reliability score at TrueDelta.com shot way up after the 2012 model year. General reliability went way up as well, although the Mexican-made models still seem to have a high rate of electrical issues.
My main concern with the Alfa is the brand new engine in a brand new car. The only consistent problems I've been reading about are electrical issues but it still gives me pause. The FCA warranty is pretty great though. 5 years/50k miles bumper to bumper with factory extension available.
I'm
Still torn, but I have at least 5 months to decide.


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post #27 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 08:06 AM
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And my 4C smokes the VW, not really a fair comparison at all. Not saying that your assessment is wrong as u are the one in the mkt for a car, but most people would cross shop the Gulia with the BMW, BENZ, AUDI, JAG and Caddy. VW R would be more in the Subaru STI or Ford Focus class. All nice cars but way different classes IMO.

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post #28 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 08:17 AM
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I actually drove the R and the Giulia not long after testing a Focus ST (they wouldn't let me put any miles on their RS) and a brand new STI. You'd think they're all similar but they ain't. The Golf is really more like an Audi or even a 3-Series. I'd go so far as to say the interior quality and comfort are better than both. The new 3-Series feels fairly chintzy. I dunno. Perception is one thing but in reality the R is a MUCH nicer car than you'd expect.

I still love that Giulia...


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post #29 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Storsav

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The front sport seats have pretty narrow bolsters, like kidney ticklers.
The front sport seats are the same construction/configuration as standard in the QV but with different upholstery covers. The bolsters are power adjustable.

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I thought the paddle shifters looked a little weird, how long they are, but work fine.
Traditionally, the Italians rest their forearms on their thighs, palms face-up, and grasp the steering wheel underhanded at approximately the 7-8 and 4-5 positions. To turn the wheel, one feeds it through one's hands. From this low position, the tail of either paddle may be easily reached using the index finger of the appropriate hand. The design of the paddles themselves appear to be identical with those in a Ferrari.

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post #30 of 85 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by chairmankaga View Post
I actually drove the R and the Giulia not long after testing a Focus ST (they wouldn't let me put any miles on their RS) and a brand new STI. You'd think they're all similar but they ain't. The Golf is really more like an Audi or even a 3-Series. I'd go so far as to say the interior quality and comfort are better than both. The new 3-Series feels fairly chintzy. I dunno. Perception is one thing but in reality the R is a MUCH nicer car than you'd expect.

I still love that Giulia...
Reading your posts, I would advise you to purchase the Golf R. You seem sold on it already

Pete

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