Transmission Issue? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 3Likes
  • 2 Post By tadslc
  • 1 Post By tadslc
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 13
Transmission Issue?

I have a regular Giulia Q4. Sometimes when I have made a stop for about an hour and leave with the engine temp gauge at about two bars, I will stop at the exit with the brake applied and wait to go. The engine will go up to about 1200 rpm (like a fast idle) but there is no push. It almost feels as if it's out of gear. When I release the brake and exit the idle speed goes down to regular. This only happens when the engine is about half warm. When I leave the garage in the morning when the engine is dead cold this doesn't happen. I have absolutely no problems with this transmission otherwise.The shift points and power transfer are excellent (unlike every Fiat automatic I've ever owned). The dealer has no flash updates for this car at this time.
alphawolfe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 09:35 AM
Registered User
 
Racer Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Venice, California, USA
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphawolfe View Post
I have a regular Giulia Q4. Sometimes when I have made a stop for about an hour and leave with the engine temp gauge at about two bars, I will stop at the exit with the brake applied and wait to go. The engine will go up to about 1200 rpm (like a fast idle) but there is no push. It almost feels as if it's out of gear. When I release the brake and exit the idle speed goes down to regular. This only happens when the engine is about half warm. When I leave the garage in the morning when the engine is dead cold this doesn't happen. I have absolutely no problems with this transmission otherwise.The shift points and power transfer are excellent (unlike every Fiat automatic I've ever owned). The dealer has no flash updates for this car at this time.
It seems you've shown the issue to your dealer.
Did they check the fluid level of the transmission?
On older cars, a vacuum leak (even the tiniest leak) would cause all kinds off problems. I don't know if vacuum has any bearing on this new transmission.

I suppose the more obvious suggestion would be, "Don't do that until it's fully warmed."

I think fluid pressure has a big influence here. When it's cold, the oil (hydraulic fluid in the transmission is a type of oil) is thick and there is more pressure because it's harder to move the oil. As it warms, the fluid flows easier and the pressure drops. If it seems fine when both cold and hot, then perhaps it's a glitch on the software designers part. It should still be looked into.

Racer Z ... 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C
2017 Alfa Romeo Ti Q2
Racer Z is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 13
The more I experience it and think about it I feel that it's programed to do what it's doing. It's very consistent and happens every time under the same conditions. It happens in reverse or drive. When you take your foot off the brake the transmission engages and moves the car.
alphawolfe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 07:15 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Posts: 2,702
It may in fact be out of gear. Transmission software is now fully integrated with the engine ECU. Any number of reasons may have prompted Alfa to engage neutral at some points in the operation. Fuel economy and emissions spring to mind. I'm not saying it does this, only that it could.

These new generation turbo engines are very high output engines and may need help meeting fuel economy or emissions targets.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
Michael Smith is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-11-2017, 08:16 AM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
tadslc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphawolfe View Post
The more I experience it and think about it I feel that it's programed to do what it's doing. It's very consistent and happens every time under the same conditions. It happens in reverse or drive. When you take your foot off the brake the transmission engages and moves the car.
Perhaps it has something to do with the Giulia "hill holding" feature?

Tad
Alabama

'59 Sprint
'59 Spider Veloce
'61 Giulietta Spider- Street
'61 Giulietta Spider- Race
'67 Duetto
'67 Giulia Super
'71 Spider Veloce
'17 Giulia Q
tadslc is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-11-2017, 01:45 PM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 15,331
See how simple a manual transmission is in comparison, lol?

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
Del is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-11-2017, 03:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Posts: 2,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
See how simple a manual transmission is in comparison, lol?
Hill holder is also available on manual transmission cars as it was invented for those of course. Electronic park brakes require some form of hill holder function even if it amounts to an automatic release of the handbrake.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
Michael Smith is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-11-2017, 08:21 PM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 15,331
Judging by the problems people are having with the electronics in the car which control most functions now including the transmission, the manuals are very simple and reliable in comparison.

Hm, just more less reliable electronic complexity?

"Electronic park brakes require some form of hill holder function even if it amounts to an automatic release of the handbrake" Probably with no modulation of the electronic "handbrake"?

The hill holders in my cars are the foot brakes, which have always worked to my satisfaction. I know how to use/modulate the gas and clutch when releasing the foot brake for starting out up hill if hill holding was needed. Always works.

By all means, though, if the car turns you on, go for it, absolutely.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 08-11-2017 at 10:15 PM.
Del is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-12-2017, 08:15 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Posts: 2,702
There are some situations where a hill start can only be effected using the handbrake.

Parallel parking facing downhill in San Francisco for example (or Vancouver Canada ).

There's just such a spot not half a mile from my house where each of my three daughters received that acid test of urban car control before I would let them take their driving test.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
Michael Smith is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-14-2017, 02:43 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
tadslc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
Judging by the problems people are having with the electronics in the car which control most functions now including the transmission, the manuals are very simple and reliable in comparison.

Hm, just more less reliable electronic complexity?

"Electronic park brakes require some form of hill holder function even if it amounts to an automatic release of the handbrake" Probably with no modulation of the electronic "handbrake"?

The hill holders in my cars are the foot brakes, which have always worked to my satisfaction. I know how to use/modulate the gas and clutch when releasing the foot brake for starting out up hill if hill holding was needed. Always works.

By all means, though, if the car turns you on, go for it, absolutely.
Del, looking at some of your recent posts, you seem to be a bitter old man, kinda like my dad, love him though I do. He had a deposit on a Giulia but ended up not buying it because it was "too small".

Why don't you give it a rest, I for one have read plenty of your negative posts about the new Giulia.
Milanoguy and 101/105guy like this.

Tad
Alabama

'59 Sprint
'59 Spider Veloce
'61 Giulietta Spider- Street
'61 Giulietta Spider- Race
'67 Duetto
'67 Giulia Super
'71 Spider Veloce
'17 Giulia Q
tadslc is offline  
post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-15-2017, 07:19 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Posts: 2,702
Nostalgia for the "old" days and scepticism about "new and improved" are not the same thing as bitterness.

Cars changed radically with the advent of electronic traction and stability control, (necessary precursors to automated driving,) multiple airbags and direct injection fully mapped engines. All of those things made cars safer, higher performance and more economical on fuel.

These advances came at the expense of what you will see described as "driver involvement." The change was as dramatic as fully autonomous driverless cars will be although I can predict with confidence that I will never ride in one and very probably neither will you. At present those devices are impossible to design let alone build. Mind you, a driverless car can lap a racetrack and match the best racing driver's time. Just not in traffic.

I will keep trying to advocate for the Giulia style of modern car that invites driver engagement while simultaneously keeping up with technology. The result is a car that provides all the supposed advantages of a modern car but encourages the driver to switch off the stability control, put the chassis in sport and the transmission in full manual shift mode ....

Del is correct though, even if you do you will not have as much fun as you would have in a 1986 Alfa Romeo Milano let alone something as rustic as a Triumph TR6.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
Michael Smith is offline  
post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-18-2017, 01:50 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
tadslc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
Nostalgia for the "old" days and scepticism about "new and improved" are not the same thing as bitterness.

Cars changed radically with the advent of electronic traction and stability control, (necessary precursors to automated driving,) multiple airbags and direct injection fully mapped engines. All of those things made cars safer, higher performance and more economical on fuel.

These advances came at the expense of what you will see described as "driver involvement." The change was as dramatic as fully autonomous driverless cars will be although I can predict with confidence that I will never ride in one and very probably neither will you. At present those devices are impossible to design let alone build. Mind you, a driverless car can lap a racetrack and match the best racing driver's time. Just not in traffic.

I will keep trying to advocate for the Giulia style of modern car that invites driver engagement while simultaneously keeping up with technology. The result is a car that provides all the supposed advantages of a modern car but encourages the driver to switch off the stability control, put the chassis in sport and the transmission in full manual shift mode ....

Del is correct though, even if you do you will not have as much fun as you would have in a 1986 Alfa Romeo Milano let alone something as rustic as a Triumph TR6.
I respectively disagree.

As a very long time Alfa owner I have witnessed the advent of the modern Alfa or most any new car for that matter and find they are superior in every way.

The performance of most new cars is so far ahead of even the last Alfas sold here that for most drivers today, they would be a death trap sooner rather than later without the safety features built into their design. I feel traction and stability control have nothing to do with the "driverless" cars of the future and everything to do with keeping drivers alive, insurance rates low and the lawyers at bay.

As far as driver involvement of the new cars today, I find my '17 Giulia as inviting to drive as my '88 Verde, my 78 Sport Sedan, my '71 Berlina or my current '67 Super. As an added bonus the A/C works great!

I was probably a little tough calling Del bitter and I respect the nostalgic point of view, look at the cars I currently own, but I feel that we are living in the greatest time to own a car since their invention.
alfamale44 likes this.

Tad
Alabama

'59 Sprint
'59 Spider Veloce
'61 Giulietta Spider- Street
'61 Giulietta Spider- Race
'67 Duetto
'67 Giulia Super
'71 Spider Veloce
'17 Giulia Q
tadslc is offline  
post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-19-2017, 06:23 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Posts: 2,702
You do not disagree, as it would appear.

Nobody is arguing that Alfa is regressing in design of their cars.

Some of us would argue that older cars are better to drive than the newer cars. So, new designs are not better "in every way".

Computerized stability control is an essential precursor to fully automated driving as are abs, power brakes, power steering, radar and Lidar controlled cruise control, automated emergency stopping, lane keeping and GPS based navigation.

The one remaining obstacle to fully automated driving is a fundamental deficiency in the Artificial Intelligence required to control all of these automated driving aids concurrently and synthetically.

Not coincidentally, each of these precursors to automated driving chips away at the joy of driving. Something no modern car can match despite capabilities not achievable by racing cars of forty years ago.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
Michael Smith is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome