Detent Springs - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Detent Springs

Does anyone have some information on the 3 detent springs under the top hats as to what the "new' length is supposed to be? One source doesn't mention length and another source says they are longer than what came out.
It would seem that as long at they are not deformed, uniform in length that when installing they should offer some serious resistance

Just trying to reason out what is fact.

Christopher

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocedoc View Post
Does anyone have some information on the 3 detent springs under the top hats as to what the "new' length is supposed to be? One source doesn't mention length and another source says they are longer than what came out.
It would seem that as long at they are not deformed, uniform in length that when installing they should offer some serious resistance

Just trying to reason out what is fact.
page 76 intereurope workshop manual 133..free length= 0.598" loaded length (10.4-12.1 lbs.) = 0.394" .never changed any and never checked them and never had a problem.. alot of never's but they shouldn't wear out
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Uncle Rick, your correct that rarely if ever there is a problem unless they break or are deformed, which I have seen both. As to the lengths, there are two camps. One is like what you said and that applies to the early gearboxes. There is the other camp which say s that the free length is 35.8mm (1.41 in) and under load 17.2 mm (.69 in) as shown on pg 75 of the Intereurope Workship manual 133, for the later gearboxes.

The springs that I have here in front of me are 30mm.

I was just wondering how much of a difference there might be between 35.8 mm and 30mm? They must have been working because all of the used springs I have here are 30mm.

Just trying to sort out if 30mm is acceptable.

Then where do you get new springs if you want to go with 35.8 mm?

Christopher

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 04:17 PM
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Isn't it rather a mute point if the car shifts with three fingers and stays in gear? What are the down sides of springs out of spec? If it doesn't satisfy you .. You can trial other springs on the bench in about ten minutes.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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there is the caveat...what other springs and where would you get them? I am ok with putting in the 30mm springs, but I would prefer the 35 mm if they could be found .

Christopher

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 02:44 AM
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This is way beyond my experience level.. I'll have to sit on the sidelines. Seems you have more basis to pursue your quest for answers than I can support. I swung and whiffed. Let's see if anyone who does this for a living can help. PS Have you posed this to Jon Norman?
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 05:03 AM
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Depends on the year. There were different height hats over the 105/115 series run.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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I just got 2 more. Now I have a Matta. I must be crazy.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Uncle Rick, I can call John Norman and field the question. Thank you for your responses.

I was surprised that there were two lengths of springs when I first looked into this issue, and then when I measured my springs, it was in between. I will have to delve into my stash and see if I can find some top hats and compare those as well.

There was a change at some point in the securing bracket from two studs to using two bolts. It does take a thin 10mm socket to fit in between the top hats to get either of them out.

In the end, it may not come to anything dramatic, but it is worth asking the question.

Christopher

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 08:05 AM
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From what I have gleened from the usual manuals the 'hat" and spring sets for 5th/R evolved into something a little more stout by loadiing that spring more. I would bet that accrued over time as REV always was a little more prone to pop out of gear and 5th was just a side bar benefactor of trying to make it a little more beneficial for the REV function without specifying a design change to deepen that particular groove on the shared shift rod. I have to bet that was a footnote and amendment to the later assemblies. There is always a reason for changes to the design over time.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Nothing worse than having the trans pop out of rev/5th gear. Yes, most likely it was a factory change without anyone noticing to resolve irritation. My guess would have been with the introduction around the time of the 1750 development. I found a set of new springs and when I get them, I will post a measurement.

Christopher

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 05:20 AM Thread Starter
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Seems that my source in print is not correct for 35mm. In asking around to those that have new springs, the resulting answer is 30mm. What I have in front of me are springs that are within tolerance. This is an issue we can put to bed.
Thank you to all who participated in the discussion.
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Christopher

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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocedoc View Post
Seems that my source in print is not correct for 35mm. In asking around to those that have new springs, the resulting answer is 30mm. What I have in front of me are springs that are within tolerance. This is an issue we can put to bed.
Thank you to all who participated in the discussion.
and kept their nose out of it & just read to glean info.

"No chance, no destiny, no fate can circumvent, change or control the firm resolve of a determined soul"

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