URGENT HELP NEEDED Transmission Problem! - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashmctavish View Post
URGENT HELP NEEDED Transmission Problem!
You asked for help & I have given it. Strip the transmission, you will find burnt blue syncho sleeves. Expect to spend £500 on parts. Been there done that. Regards C Mct
Out of curiousity, how would that happen from the shift fork bolt coming out?

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post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashmctavish View Post
URGENT HELP NEEDED Transmission Problem!
You asked for help & I have given it. Strip the transmission, you will find burnt blue syncho sleeves. Expect to spend £500 on parts. Been there done that. Regards C Mct
I have to agree. Seen it before. Sorry to hear that!

I had a really good tranny too that I would have let go for nothing.

I may still ahve it somewhere.

Jason


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post #18 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Talking to Papajam on the phone, those problems were not inherrient-thats all, not saying anyone is incorrect, but if the tranny was working beautifully and that one bolt came out-how does that cause the other damage being described...the metal tab that held the bolt broke, this was not a matter of the bolt being forced out, but rather vibrated out-also fluid came out clean and no metal shavings were found.
Jason, if you find that tranny, you may have a found a brand new bestest ever friend...;-)

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post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 11:14 AM
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Talking to Papajam on the phone, those problems were not inherrient-thats all, not saying anyone is incorrect, but if the tranny was working beautifully and that one bolt came out-how does that cause the other damage being described...the metal tab that held the bolt broke, this was not a matter of the bolt being forced out, but rather vibrated out-also fluid came out clean and no metal shavings were found.
Jason, if you find that tranny, you may have a found a brand new bestest ever friend...;-)
Sorry, no 90's tranny.
But you can pull it and ship to us for a rebuild, you can remove the bell housing to save on frieght if you like. Takes us a couple days to do it. We will replace 1st/2nd gear synchro's (while we are in there)for sure and we will replace anything else that needs to be replaced.
Warrantied for 1 year.
$350+any new parts
Freight both ways is up to you!
This is a very common problem. Happens all the time. It will need to rebuilt (re-phrase : built up)to fix the problem.

Good luck! If you are interested let me know.

Ciao!
Jason


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post #20 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 11:32 AM
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Told Ya!..........................
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post #21 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 11:35 AM
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I would say the problem is that the bolt securing the 4th gear selector fork came out and now the fork is sliding free on the selector shaft, meaning that the syncho sleeve is stuck in 4th gear.

Now that said, 4th gear is not really a gear at all. When you select "4th," the transmission is not really selecting a "gear" perse, but rather the power is being transmitted straight through the transmission, like it was on a solid straight shaft.

However, when you select 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 5th, the Layshaft (the shaft with the gears on it comes into play. Even in 4th, the Layshaft is spinning, however none of the other gears (1,2,3,5) are locked to the mainshaft, so in essence, it's not a factor. Now, since you don't have control of 4th (it's locked there), if you try and select any othe gear, you will lock up the Layshaft since two gears will try and be engaged at the same time. Hence, the gearbox lockup.

As far as other damage goes, if you're very lucky you won't have any damage from the loose stuff floating around in the gearbox looking to jam something. With regards to the synchos, there should be any special problems there. You might want to consider having the box rebuilt as long as it has to come out and be inspected for damage anyway.
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post #22 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Told Ya!..........................
Told me what???

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post #23 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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I would say the problem is that the bolt securing the 4th gear selector fork came out and now the fork is sliding free on the selector shaft, meaning that the syncho sleeve is stuck in 4th gear.

Now that said, 4th gear is not really a gear at all. When you select "4th," the transmission is not really selecting a "gear" perse, but rather the power is being transmitted straight through the transmission, like it was on a solid straight shaft.

However, when you select 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 5th, the Layshaft (the shaft with the gears on it comes into play. Even in 4th, the Layshaft is spinning, however none of the other gears (1,2,3,5) are locked to the mainshaft, so in essence, it's not a factor. Now, since you don't have control of 4th (it's locked there), if you try and select any othe gear, you will lock up the Layshaft since two gears will try and be engaged at the same time. Hence, the gearbox lockup.

As far as other damage goes, if you're very lucky you won't have any damage from the loose stuff floating around in the gearbox looking to jam something. With regards to the synchos, there shouldn't be any special problems there. You might want to consider having the box rebuilt as long as it has to come out and be inspected for damage anyway.
It appeared the bolt did get "bitten" by a gear, but once again-there was never any abnormal noise coming from the tranny post or pre getting stuck in 4th. I'm glad your confirming nothing abnormal with synchros either as Papajam did also, so actuall damage resulting from the loosening of the bolt is dependent upon what the bolt may have done being freed-no loud bangs or what not came from the tranny, damage to one gear that "bit" the bolt my have tooth damage. I will tackle this tranny myself-as I am a broke son of a gun right now-if I were going to invest $350 into something, it would be in the stock of oil-not a tranny-got to bypass that offer. The offer was appreciated though.

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post #24 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 03:46 PM
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You can chase around on here for opinions as long as you like. But you have to strip the transmission. Unless you want to do the job twice you will at least replace the 2nd synchro, input shaft bearing and whatever else damage you find. If as you have already said its stuck in 4th. Trying to engage other gears with the motor running will burn the other synchros & sleeves. You will never be happy with this gearbox until you have rebuilt it correctly. Im not vying for business. I live in the uk! Your cheapest solution is to by another gearbox hoping its ok. If not you can kiss goodbye to £500 and hello to a nice gear shift. Its broken! Fix it!
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post #25 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by crashmctavish View Post
You can chase around on here for opinions as long as you like. But you have to strip the transmission. Unless you want to do the job twice you will at least replace the 2nd synchro, input shaft bearing and whatever else damage you find. If as you have already said its stuck in 4th. Trying to engage other gears with the motor running will burn the other synchros & sleeves. You will never be happy with this gearbox until you have rebuilt it correctly. Im not vying for business. I live in the uk! Your cheapest solution is to by another gearbox hoping its ok. If not you can kiss goodbye to £500 and hello to a nice gear shift. Its broken! Fix it!
I plan on a new 2nd synchro and replacing 5th with 3rd-centerline.com has all kinds of tips on doing the same thing for next to nothing. As I said-I'll keep everyone posted, but seems to me, a multiple bad syncros and sleeves will show up in the fluid (Mobil One Synthetic), but it came out as clean as possible-I'm doubting any major damage-I'll let you know if you prove me wrong-but the major experts around here already disagree with you with the severity of damage-not to say you don't know what you're talking about-just saying-what happened to you, maybe completely different from me. New bearings and seals are a must anyways aren't they??? If I'm that far into why the hell would I want to do it again...Not sure about pricing conversions, but right now, USD, estimate is $170...

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post #26 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 04:07 PM
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you can turn the synchro rings over to save money agreed. You dont know what the damage is until you strip it. Im a mechanical electrical engineer ex bike racer ex bike mechanic with over 30yrs playing with various kit. I build for reliability and performance. its a nice car, you owe it to do the job well. Papajam is good & knows his stuff. Akitaman is awesome. I spent 5years building mine, the pics are posted on here. Strip the box and have a look. Get you hands off the keyboard & get them greasy
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post #27 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashmctavish View Post
you can turn the synchro rings over to save money agreed. You dont know what the damage is until you strip it. Im a mechanical electrical engineer ex bike racer ex bike mechanic with over 30yrs playing with various kit. I build for reliability and performance. its a nice car, you owe it to do the job well. Papajam is good & knows his stuff. Akitaman is awesome. I spent 5years building mine, the pics are posted on here. Strip the box and have a look. Get you hands off the keyboard & get them greasy
****-Now you're talking my language! But-It's raining and the car is in the driveway (My camaro is the Garage King) I was a chemical engineer for Barr and electrical for GM-Now I know why you keep trying to get the last word in...lol
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post #28 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 04:33 PM
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Camero American Alfa Italian, enough said ?
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post #29 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Camero American Alfa Italian, enough said ?
Exactly, that is why the Alfa is in the driveway-I knew we'd eventually agree on something- A car appraised at $15K in the garage and a car worth $4K (if that now) in the driveway...

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post #30 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-10-2007, 09:11 AM
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If you chipped any gears, I have extras around. you can have one for the price of shipping, but you may need to replace the bushing in them.

-Matt

ps. ive got a few other parts around as well

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