Paul Spruell Flex Disc - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
alfaparticle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 12,972
Paul Spruell Flex Disc

I am having some problems with my new Mercedes type flex disc with safety plates that I bought from Paul Spruell and I would like advice or comments, particularly from someone who has installed one successfully.

I assembled it on the bench with spare driveshaft parts to make sure that it fit properly. Then I installed it on my Spider at the same time that I replaced the U-joints. After getting a U-joint problem resolved, I had a major vibration at the front of the driveshaft. The gearbox was bouncing up and down and I could not go above 15 mph. I removed the Spruell flex disc and installed the original Giubo and the car drove fine. I then put the Spruell disc back in and the awful vibration is back. I followed the directions carefully and I am pretty sure that it is in the way it is supposed to be. It looks to be centered when I rotate the drive shaft by hand. One thing that I noticed is that with the cross member for the tail of the gearbox installed, the shaft is not running centered in the center support - it goes up and down in phase with the shaft. When detach the cross member the center support is running true but at full droop.

The rear safety plate of the Spruell disc is very close to the nose of the driveshaft due to the three spacers that separate it from the disc. I wonder if it might be binding on the shaft when the car is on the road and the rear end loaded. The picture is with the car on the lift and the suspension at full droop.

Thanks.
Attached Images
    

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
alfaparticle is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 02:34 PM
Moderator
Platinum SubscriberModerator
 
Alfajay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Juan Capistrano
Posts: 9,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaparticle View Post
...the center support is running true but at full droop.
Yes, that is visible in your last photo - the giubo is bent to accomodate the angular mismatch between the transmission and the front driveshaft. My guess is that the Mercedes giubo is siffer than your old/stock one. The old/stock part can accommodate that mismatch because it is soft. However, a giubo is only supposed to handle torsional shocks. So one problem is that a sagging transmission mount or something else is causing that angular mismatch.

Quote:
The rear safety plate of the Spruell disc is very close to the nose of the driveshaft due to the three spacers that separate it from the disc.
That could be another problem. I'm curious why you didn't mount the rear Spruell disk against the giubo, with the spacers behind it, in order to separate the disk from the front of the drive shaft.

Note that I'm just guessing here. The stiffer giubo that I got from Spruell a year or so ago was the same thickness as my Alfa giubo, so I didn't need the washers. And I didn't install the three-eared safety disks. So my set-up was quite different.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L
Alfajay is online now  
post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 03:39 PM
Registered User
 
Sketchl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 680
Garage
Paul Spruell Flex Disc

Ciao,

I've recently completed a full drive train mock up with the same Spruell set up to establish the new propshaft centre support location.
Below is also confirmation concerning the distortion of the giubo which I didn't notice during installation but can see is it being an issue!
My initial thought of a remedy will be to re-space the washers so that the giubo is not distorted.......
Attached Images
 
Sketchl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
alfaparticle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 12,972
Quote:
That could be another problem. I'm curious why you didn't mount the rear Spruell disk against the giubo, with the spacers behind it, in order to separate the disk from the front of the drive shaft.
I was just following the instructions. I might try removing one of those spacers and adding one between the drive shaft flange and the flex disc. It has two now - as per the instructions.

I had the cross member for the transmission mount removed when I took that last photo. The cross member bolts up ok but I have to push up the rear of the gearbox quite a bit to start the bolts.

The axial positioning appears to be OK because the center support lined up with the mounting studs.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
alfaparticle is online now  
post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 04:39 PM
Moderator
Platinum SubscriberModerator
 
Alfajay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Juan Capistrano
Posts: 9,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketchl View Post
My initial thought of a remedy will be to re-space the washers so that the giubo is not distorted.......
Yes, that definitely seems worth doing.

alfaparticle: Perhaps what I was seeing in your third photo is what is shown in Sketchl's picture. Maybe there isn't an axial misalignment between transmission and driveshaft. It's that the spacers are too thick, turning the giubo into the shape of a wave washer.

Might this be as simple as using fewer spacers when you also have the three-eared safety disks stuffed in there too?

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L
Alfajay is online now  
post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 05:06 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
1750GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Oakville, Canada
Posts: 3,392
Garage
Did you guys try finding out from Spruell what is going here?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


1971 1750 GTV 105.48 (sold), 1972 1300GTJunior (sold)
1969 1750 GTV 105.5 , 1972 Montreal
1750GT is offline  
post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 05:19 PM
Registered User
 
Sketchl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 680
Garage
Ciao Ed,

Please note that I've emailed Paul Spruell for some clarification of their very comprehensive instructions as there might be a flaw when distributing the spacers! I'll revert response on receipt.

Note that it appears that the two spacers on the outside of the giubo on the gearbox yoke bolts should actually be on the inside to make it 5 spacers not 3, this would assist in alligning the giubo plus stop the rubber giubo touching the metal safety flange

Saluti
Sergio
Attached Images
 
Sketchl is offline  
post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
alfaparticle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 12,972
Quote:
Might this be as simple as using fewer spacers when you also have the three-eared safety disks stuffed in there too?
Maybe.

I don't see the reason to have the 3 spacers between the Giubo and the rear safety plate. Some of those spacers could be moved to the forward side of the Giubo to straighten it out. The front safety plate bolts up to the Giubo with no spacers.

I have had my drive shaft in and out 5 times so far. I am getting good at it but also weary of it.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke

Last edited by alfaparticle; 05-02-2014 at 05:38 PM.
alfaparticle is online now  
post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 07:04 PM
Richard Jemison
Platinum Subscriber
 
Alfar7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, Fl. U.S.A.
Posts: 7,049
Setup

Ed, I sent you an email.

Richard Jemison
RJR Racing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"When you are dead you don`t know it.
Only those around you are distressed.
Same with stupid"
Alfar7 is offline  
post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-03-2014, 07:40 AM
Richard Jemison
Platinum Subscriber
 
Alfar7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, Fl. U.S.A.
Posts: 7,049
info

Here`s the emails I`ve shared with Ed for you others wanting help.


Quote:
The new rubber "thing" must center at the same distance from the output flange as the spherical ball`s working surface at the output shaft.
The "plates" must be at the same distance from that center as well or movement will not be uniform.

Have a great trip. I can provide lots of water for rain in England if needed.

Rj

In a message dated 5/2/2014 10:41:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
Maybe. I donít see the reason for the three washers between the Giubo and the rear plate.

(Added to this with post)
If the rubber thing is narrower than the OE Giubo then using an uneven count of washers front or back will NOT center it as with the OE part.



It appears that Spruell has switched sources for the Giubo. Jay says that his is different from mine and does not use spacers. I wonder if they have ever installed and run one of the new type.



I donít feel like doing the development work for this thing. Maybe I should wait until I get back from England and see if any reliable information surfaces while I am away.



Ed



From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 9:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Spruell Flexdisc



Looks like you have the plate mounted at the giubo on the front side with washers between it and the output flange. On the rear side you have the guibo then 3 washers then the driveshaft flange.

Is it interfering with the driveshaft?

Rj



In a message dated 5/2/2014 3:56:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:

Hi Richard,

Here are the pictures. I wonder if the rear safety plate is spaced too far from the giubo with the three washers and is possibly interfering with the nose of the driveshaft. They are very close.



The first 3 pictures are on the bench and the 4th one is installed on the car.



I think that I will start a thread on the ABB about it.



Ed

Richard Jemison
RJR Racing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"When you are dead you don`t know it.
Only those around you are distressed.
Same with stupid"
Alfar7 is offline  
post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 06:15 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
alfaparticle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 12,972
Quote:
The new rubber "thing" must center at the same distance from the output flange as the spherical ball`s working surface at the output shaft.
It seems to me that it should be centered if the length of the new disc + spacers = length of standard Giubo and there is an equal number of spacers on each side. As I don't understand why the rear safety plate is spaced from the disc and because it looks like it might be interfering with the drive shaft, then I think that I will remove those spacers and bolt the rear plate up against the disc, just like the front one.

Does that sound like a good plan?

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
alfaparticle is online now  
post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 07:33 AM
Moderator
Platinum SubscriberModerator
 
Alfajay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Juan Capistrano
Posts: 9,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaparticle View Post
I will remove those spacers and bolt the rear plate up against the disc, just like the front one. Does that sound like a good plan?
Yes, that sound like a good plan to me. Richard's advice to locate the center of the giubo with the pivot point between the trans and driveshaft makes perfect sense. But I can't see why it would matter where the two safety plates are located as long as they will grab on to something in the event that the giubo disintegrates.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L
Alfajay is online now  
post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 08:14 AM
Registered User
 
101/105guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,589
Why do you think a Mercedes guibo is needed ? 400hp ? Running at Sebring this year ?

'64 Guilia Spider
'67 GTV
'68 Giulia Super

Conservatives-we work hard, so you don't have to !
101/105guy is offline  
post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
alfaparticle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 12,972
Quote:
Why do you think a Mercedes guibo is needed ? 400hp ? Running at Sebring this year ?
It may not be "needed" but I have heard some first hand accounts of Giubo's exploding on cars with only a little more power than mine - currently 165HP with most likely some more to come with development. I am second guessing myself and thinking that maybe I should just install the safety plates on a standard Giubo. That may well be the plan if I cannot get the Mercedes Giubo to function properly in my car.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
alfaparticle is online now  
post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 08:45 AM
Registered User
 
101/105guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,589
Sometimes the "improved" part that wasn't designed for the car can be more trouble....
Thousands of Alfas with modded motors are running stock guibos with no problems.

'64 Guilia Spider
'67 GTV
'68 Giulia Super

Conservatives-we work hard, so you don't have to !
101/105guy is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome