First Gear Fix - Page 6 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #76 of 151 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 09:30 AM
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Hi,

This is an old thread (almost 3 years old); Of those who did the fix to the first gear, can you share your experiences? Did it turn out as expected? Is it still working? At least some contributors of this thread claim that they did the modification almost 40 years ago. What about the experience of others?

Ik deed dit aan vier van mijn eigen autos en vele klanten autos, ze zijn allemaal prima na vele jaren

Ik ben al wennen aan dit, omdat toen ik rijden in een auto zonder dat ze grunts

Vele groenten, Pete

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post #77 of 151 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Ik deed dit aan vier van mijn eigen autos en vele klanten autos, ze zijn allemaal prima na vele jaren

Ik ben al wennen aan dit, omdat toen ik rijden in een auto zonder dat ze grunts

Vele groenten, Pete
??????? Huh?

R
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post #78 of 151 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 09:26 AM
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From Google Translate:

"I did this on four of my own cars and many customers car, they are all fine after many years

I'm already getting used to this because when I drive a car without them grinds

Many vegetables, Pete"

I'm not sure I understand Pete's obsession with vegetables, though...

Tom

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post #79 of 151 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 09:32 AM
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I may be getting to be an old curmudgeon by now, but why the hell would you bother. If you drive a manual box properly, you don't need it. That is, before putting in reverse or 1st gear, either put the car in 4th or slightly notch into 2nd and voila ... And if you need to shift down to 1st from 2nd, judicious use of clutch throttle will make for a smooth shift ... not that a street Alfa should need this anyway, given how low 2nd gear is. If you are not up to it, you shouldn't be driving an Alfa anyway
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post #80 of 151 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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'Bout everybody I know that drives an Alfa has made the first gear crunch. It only happens when the engine is running and the clutch is not depressed. That allows the engine to turn the input shaft and the counter gear in the TX. If you are standing still, you have to intentionally stop the input / counter gear or you will grunch the 1st gear dog teeth when you try to shift directly into 1st. You can prevent that from happening as we all learned.

You do this by:
1) shifting into 2nd or some other gear to use its syncro to stop the rotating parts (you only have to push onto the syncro ramp, not actually engage a gear), THEN shifting to 1st ;

2) fix the stupid first gear syncro design by installing the missing parts as described. Then you just shift into 1st from the start.

I always felt that Alfa was being as penny-cheap as a Chevy for leaving out these (originally) $2 in parts. AND they had to machine the inner part of the 1st gear differently than the others, AND they had to make a different hook cog part.

It was just dumb! Anyway, that's why I developed this fix, and why I posted it here after hearing so many BBer's complain of the stupid Alfa Grunch!

Robert
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post #81 of 151 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Alleggerita View Post
I may be getting to be an old curmudgeon by now, but why the hell would you bother. If you drive a manual box properly, you don't need it. That is, before putting in reverse or 1st gear, either put the car in 4th or slightly notch into 2nd and voila ... And if you need to shift down to 1st from 2nd, judicious use of clutch throttle will make for a smooth shift ... not that a street Alfa should need this anyway, given how low 2nd gear is. If you are not up to it, you shouldn't be driving an Alfa anyway
OMG Alfa has never had a design flaw!!After driving them for many years, this was the best improvement I have ever done! Making an Alfa shift like the rest of the REAL world Then again you never drove like I did!
Maybe I should not have drove and owned one or 2,3,4,5,6,7....


Gubi- it lost something in translation It's fruit not veg...

60sracer Thanx and JMc who showed me this mod!! You would be KRAZY not to do this if you are rebuilding your trans
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“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough”
Oo--V--oO There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness".

Last edited by ARwrench; 06-09-2009 at 02:21 PM.
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post #82 of 151 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 02:24 PM
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Gubi- it lost something in translation It's fruit not veg...
Oh...many *fruit*. That makes *much* more sense now!

Tom

1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
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1991 Spider
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post #83 of 151 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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I bet he means "many thanks"...

Don't you just love literal translations? I was in Japan once and passed a gas station with a sign:

"We Fix Tires Flat"

although I preferred mine to be round and plump......

R
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post #84 of 151 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 02:35 PM
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I bet he means "many thanks"...
I hope so. Because there's nothing scarier in my mind than a fruit-obsessed Dutchman! All, like, wooden shoes and bananas...yikes.

Tom

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post #85 of 151 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 60sRacer View Post
I bet he means "many thanks"...

Don't you just love literal translations? I was in Japan once and passed a gas station with a sign:

"We Fix Tires Flat"

although I preferred mine to be round and plump......

R
You Would

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post #86 of 151 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 02:39 PM
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I hope so. Because there's nothing scarier in my mind than a fruit-obsessed Dutchman! All, like, wooden shoes and bananas...yikes.

There are two kinds of people I can't stand in this world...
People who intolerant of other people's cultures..
and the Dutch

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough”
Oo--V--oO There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness".
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post #87 of 151 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 03:27 PM
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Thanks for all the input.

I just modified the gearbox with the fix in the first gear.

In a couple of months I will know if it will work as expected, or if I will have to remove the gearbox again to undo the fix.

PS: groente = vegetable; fruit = fruit

Spider 2.0i 1992 | GTV 2000 1971 | Giulia Spider 1963
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post #88 of 151 (permalink) Old 03-04-2010, 07:31 PM
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Pulling off Dog Gears

I found this great thread just in time as I am going to start rebuilding a gearbox this weekend.

Question what do I use to pull the Dog Gears off. I was looking at Bill77's photos on page 2. And I see the snap ring in place could I use a three arm puller?
He didn't use screw drivers did he?

Next question how do you put the "new" one back on? Warm it up and drop it on
or is a press required?

Thanks


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post #89 of 151 (permalink) Old 03-05-2010, 06:33 AM
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Pressing out syncro "Dogs"

Pullers won`t work. Use a flat sided gear puller clamped tightly to the dog under the snap ring. Also it does not hurt to heat the dog before pressing out the gear. Helps reducing the separating force.
As pic shows sometime it takes enough force that dog will fail if not clamped tight enough...

Do not mix parts of syncro assemblies. The earlier syncros are more durable but unavailable. The later "moly" sliders will not work with them. Totally different designs
Below is pic of Moly slider compared to Early non moly. The non-moly is the rear one with a distinctive machined groove in the center. Both of these are worn. The tooth point on the non moly not so sharp, but the friction thickness still good. The Moly one is worn on the friction surface where it contacts the syncro band. Neither is re-usable..
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post #90 of 151 (permalink) Old 03-05-2010, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfar7 View Post
Pullers won`t work.
Sorry Richard, it always has for me (but I admit I've only removed about twenty dog gears whereas you've probably done a LOT more) but the flat sided gear puller would be first choice if I had one.

As usual, a sharp tap on the end of the puller (while force is applied) helps get things moving.
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