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post #16 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Italian
This makes such good sense, I just wish someone would make replacement dog gears. The replacement process is surely going to deplete the total number of rebuildable transmissions out in ALFA Land as trannys are scrapped for parts.
I would call APE in Tracy CA. for some parts. I would imagine they have a box of used gears laying around from tranny's they have stripped for shafts, 2nd gears etc. Wouldn't be to hard for them to come up with some dogs etc for this modification.
I would love to see a picture of what this looks like, as I am a visual oriented person.
Lets see...lightened gears, modified 1st gear and Redline MTL...man that would be one slick gearbox!

Christopher

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post #17 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 05:48 PM
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OK, I installed the synchro bits of the 2nd through 5th style onto 1st gear this evening. The camera was handy, so here's what it looks like:

This picture shows first gear with the original dog gears and all the synchro bits, including the dreaded snap-ring, in place.
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post #18 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 05:52 PM
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On the left is the same first gear assembly with the snap ring removed. Now you can see the synchro ring, the sectors and the semi-circular strap (note: only one strap).

On the right is a 2nd through 5th style dog gear with the synchro ring, sectors and and a pair of semi-circular straps. Note that the sector at 12 o'clock is different on the first gear, which has a tooth pointing downwards. Notice, too, that the dog gear has a gap at 12 o'clock for the sector gear tooth in addition to the gap at 6 o'clock for the smaller sector. The 2nd through 5th style dog gear only has one gap at 6 o'clock for the small sector.
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post #19 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 05:55 PM
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This picture shows the synchro ring (outer most ring), the sectors and the semi-circular straps by themselves. First gear is on the left.
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post #20 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 05:56 PM
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With the synchro ring, sectors and straps removed, you can see what first gear looks like with its dog gears still in place on the left. On the right is the dog gear for 2nd through 5th without the synchro bits.
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post #21 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 05:58 PM
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This picture shows first gear with the snap ring reinstalled to provide a "shoulder" for pulling the dog gear off of first gear.
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post #22 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 05:59 PM
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.... and here is first gear with the dog gear pulled off.
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post #23 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 06:01 PM
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Here is first gear with a 2nd through 5th style dog gear, synchro ring, sectors and straps positioned. All that remains is to put the snap ring back on to hold all these pieces in place.

I noticed that the little oiling notches in the gear near the bushing (one at 12 o'clock and one at 7 o'clock) always had one lined up with the small sector when I disassembled the gears, so that's how I aligned it when pressing the dog gear back on.

By the way, the dog gear came from APE (used, but with very sharp teeth), the sectors came from DiFattia Brothers (one new and one used, but I couldn't tell which was new), and the synchro ring and straps were new pieces from IAP.

I'll give you driving impressions once I finish building my Spider. Tune back to this thread in 2012.
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post #24 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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Bill,

Thanks for the photos. I did my gears so long ago (1969) there was no internet, and no digital cameras to post with. Well, I was using ArpaNet just a little later, which did grow up, but you had to be in a few special places to have access.

Great pics!! BTW - I made the changes without removing the 1st dog gear with its notch. Still working fine, notch and all almost 40 years later. The TX does have the slightest rattle at idle in neutral.....

Swapping dog gears is still a great move, especially for the worn 2nd gear dogs. I suspect all these years later that the very large rotating mass was just a bit too much for the syncro. 1st probably would wear too except that we don't use it very much. The lightened gears probably would help keep this wear down too.

Robert

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post #25 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 10:37 PM
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Awesome! Thank you. I think I have some spare parts kicking around a bin that will let me do this mod on my next transmission.

Christopher

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post #26 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 11:13 PM
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bill

thanks for the photos, i will be buying a "new" gearbox, in a few weeks, and will re-build it in the new way, after gear lighting, ..but one question, i have the specks. for gear lighting, on 1 and 2 gear the holes are not drilled all the way thru because of the dog rings( how did they get that name?) after you take off the dog rings, a thought, perhaps drilling it ( 1st and 2 gear) all the way thru? i still will use shell gearbox oil. redline scares me, my gearbox failed after only 40 miles after i put that oil in, perhaps it was going to fail anyway...but...i plan to use what alfa romeo says to use.....back with another question, have you seen those s. african scyhro rings on e-bay? velocedoc, told me about them.....back agian so you can rebuild the 1 st gear like 2-5 gears? with 2 semi-circluar rings insted of 1 on the first gear?

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post #27 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-13-2006, 12:55 AM
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This is very cool stuff but looking at the pics and reading. I was thinking
The dogs come off, what would happen if you got say a tripple cone CF syncro/dogs etc that is used in a vett I would guess you would have to do it in a matched pair say 1 and 2.
I do not know if the dogs come off in the vett tranny but if not they could be milled down.
but think if we could.. fast shifts no grind long life...
I think the mill work would be just a bit more then the mill work we do all the time to lighten the gears

The next thing I see is somewhere in the late 60's Alfa put in needle bearings on 5th.
can the needle bearings be used on the rest of the gears too??

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post #28 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-13-2006, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
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One of the alfa suppliers had a set of CR gears with needle bearings (IAP or CL) a while back. But I understand the gears were not durable enough. Factory are induction hardened, and the hardness goes pretty deep - which makes drilling for lightness difficult BTW. Don't know how the needle bearings worked out.

Robert
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post #29 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-13-2006, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bianchi1
thanks for the photos, i will be buying a "new" gearbox, in a few weeks, and will re-build it in the new way, after gear lighting, ..but one question, i have the specks. for gear lighting, on 1 and 2 gear the holes are not drilled all the way thru because of the dog rings( how did they get that name?) after you take off the dog rings, a thought, perhaps drilling it ( 1st and 2 gear) all the way thru? i still will use shell gearbox oil. redline scares me, my gearbox failed after only 40 miles after i put that oil in, perhaps it was going to fail anyway...but...i plan to use what alfa romeo says to use.....back with another question, have you seen those s. african scyhro rings on e-bay? velocedoc, told me about them.....back agian so you can rebuild the 1 st gear like 2-5 gears? with 2 semi-circluar rings insted of 1 on the first gear?
The factory GTA gears are releived on both sides and drilled all the way through, although perhaps to different specs than you have.

Ken

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post #30 of 151 (permalink) Old 09-13-2006, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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I rebuilt the 1st gear to be like the others almost 40 years ago. I have had no problems since, even with a rebuild of the bearings and outer syncro rings in between. And I didn't even replace the 1st dog gear, so I've been driving with the extra notch. No problems at all.

Really glad to see others trying this!!

Robert
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