Dog Gears, how to remove and what to look for. - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2006, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Dog Gears, how to remove and what to look for.

G'Day All,

With the interest shown in recent threads and because I'm currently pulling an Alfetta transaxle apart for parts, I thought I would post my currently preferred method of removing the Dog Gears.

After removing the gears from the shaft.

1/ Remove the snap ring.
2/ Remove the syncro ring, retainers and guide sectors
3/ Reinstall the snap ring
4/ Place metal disk as per brass disk in photos (max o/d 49mm)
5/ Use three jaw puller as shown.
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Last edited by Craig; 01-03-2008 at 12:54 PM.
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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2006, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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Inspection of Dog Gears

Inspection of Dog Gears.

What I look for is a nice sharp point as in No. 1 Photo 1. and a nice flat top as in No. 2 Photo 1.

Not a blunt point as in No. 1 Photo 2. or a worn top as in No. 2 Photo 2. and no broken teeth as in No 3. Photo 2.
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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-01-2006, 05:47 AM
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Thanks for the info. I'll be doing this very soon.

Bill / 1977 Alfa Romeo 4C2000 / 2012 BMW S1000RR / 1975 BMW R90/6
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-01-2006, 08:49 AM
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Great pictures, thanks! Makes me feel a little better about the tranny I just buttoned up. Do you happen to know if the gears and dog gears in the Alfetta transaxles are the same as those used in 105/115 trannies? Obviously things like forks and shafts are different but maybe Alfa used some of the same internals. It would be another reason to mine a little further into those Alfettas destined for the crusher.

Bill Sinclair
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-01-2006, 10:43 AM
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Craig you mention photo 1 and photo 2 (of the close up pics of the dog teeth), I only see one photo?
It looks like only phot 2 showed up?
BTW thanks for the info and pic(s)!
Will definitely come in handy over the next few weeks....

1979 Spider
Greg, IBM (Italian By Marriage)

Last edited by Doctorc; 07-01-2006 at 10:54 AM.
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-01-2006, 11:56 AM
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Excellent pictures. I understand what the dog gears should look like, but at what point of wear do the dog gears become unserviceable? Also, is it possible to grind and clean-up the teeth a bit to get some one more rebuild out of them?

John Stewart
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-01-2006, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill S
Do you happen to know if the gears and dog gears in the Alfetta transaxles are the same as those used in 105/115 trannies?
Unfortunately, no the dogs from the transaxle boxes are not the same as the 105/115 series.

Joe
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-01-2006, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctorc
It looks like only phot 2 showed up?
G'Day Greg,

There should be two pics, one with two circles and one with three.

Try clicking 'refresh' while holding the shift key.

Does anyone else see only one pic?

Craig,
1988 75 TS, 1989 164
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-01-2006, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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G'Day John,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtrip
Excellent pictures. I understand what the dog gears should look like, but at what point of wear do the dog gears become unserviceable?
Define unserviceable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtrip
Also, is it possible to grind and clean-up the teeth a bit to get some one more rebuild out of them?
You might be able to clean then up but my feeling is that if the are too bad to use on fifth, they're probably scrap.

Craig,
1988 75 TS, 1989 164
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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-02-2006, 10:01 AM
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"Defining unserviceable" is the point. What does an unserviceable gear look like vs. one that is salvagable or that might be dressed and reused.

And what would be the symptoms of a gearbox that was fitted with new sychros, but rather tattered dog gears were reused.

John Stewart
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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-02-2006, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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G'Day John,

Your second question is easier to answer, symptoms include:

Reduced syncro sleeve life and difficulty engaging gears.

New syncro rings and sleeves will syncronise the speed of the gears but blunt teeth on the dog gears may prevent or inhibit the meshing of the teeth (on the dog gears and syncro sleeves). (see pic)


I rebuilt the gearbox in my TS in May '02 without doing anything about the dog gears. I have been aware of the need to go back in and re-do second for something over a year.

Don't get me wrong, the box is still good overall but second is 'knotchy' with the occasional 'grunch' when rushed. I want better.

So this time I'm collecting parts first.
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Last edited by Craig; 07-02-2006 at 01:28 PM. Reason: Forgot pic
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-05-2006, 02:20 PM
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Craig -- I just used your suggestion for pressing off the dog gear from second gear. It works like a charm. I used a 32mm socket instead of a brass disk with the same result (using what I had in the toolbox).

This is quite easy to do thanks to the info on the BB. Since I'm in this far, it looks like a good point in time to replace the dog gears on 1st, 2nd and 3rd, depending on what the parts cost, and also the synchro rings and selector rings. We'll see.....

Bill / 1977 Alfa Romeo 4C2000 / 2012 BMW S1000RR / 1975 BMW R90/6
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-05-2006, 02:22 PM
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By the way, do you find the snap ring to be a royal pain in the arse to remove & reinstall? Maybe I have lousy snap ring pliers.

Bill / 1977 Alfa Romeo 4C2000 / 2012 BMW S1000RR / 1975 BMW R90/6
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 08:22 AM
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Does anyone sell new dog gears without having to buy the entire gear assembly?

Bill / 1977 Alfa Romeo 4C2000 / 2012 BMW S1000RR / 1975 BMW R90/6
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill77
Does anyone sell new dog gears without having to buy the entire gear assembly?
No, Alfa has never sold the dog gears without the main gear. I don't think there are any aftermarket manufacturers of this part.

Joe
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