Build Thread - 2L Nord with Twin Spark Head for Track Day/Street Use - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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Build Thread - 2L Nord with Twin Spark Head for Track Day/Street Use

All -

My 72 GT is all show and no go at this point. It has a stock rebuild on a 2L Nord.





However, I plan to change that in the near future -- I have a spare 2L Nord block (casting 512 - 1972 or so), crank, and I have a twin spark head on the way here from Europe. I don't plan to do anything exotic here; just want a strong N/A motor for track days and a bit of street driving.

My basic plan -- balanced bottom end, aftermarket rods (MaxSpeeding?), quality forged pistons (recommendations?) with about 10.5:1 or 11:1 compression (something that will live with 93 pump premium if I back off timing, but will usually have some race fuel mixed in), aftermarket camshafts (recommendations?), aftermarket ignition (MSD 6AL box + 8 plug distributor?), and I'm guessing Weber 45's.

I plan to have the head ported. Will tackle it myself if I can't find anyone to do it.

Questions -

1. Recommended block and crank mods - drilling the oil passage in the block, staking the plugs in the crank, right?

2. Recommended pistons and compression ratio? How far can I go on an overbore?

3. Recommendation on camshafts and valvetrain?

4. Recommendation on ignition?

5. Recommendation on carbs and intake?

6. I know the TS head is thicker, so I'll need to either mill the bosses where the studs go through or remove the shorter Nord studs and install TS studs. Will probably leave this to the machine shop. Any other needed mods that I'm forgetting?

7. If you have any recommendations on someone to port the head, please post here or send me a message. I'll do the engine assembly myself.

Almost forgot -- I don't necessarily have a hp goal; just want to make as much as reasonably possible without exotic components and/or twisting it to 9,000 rpm. Having said that, I think 200+ at the crank sounds reasonable.

Thanks in advance for any info!

Scott

72 GTV; 66 Fairlane GT convt, 428, 4 sp; 68 GTO Convt, owner built 455 and TH400; 71 Javelin road race project, owner built 401, T10
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 09:00 PM
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6. I know the TS head is thicker, so I'll need to either mill the bosses where the studs go through or remove the shorter Nord studs and install TS studs. Will probably leave this to the machine shop. Any other needed mods that I'm forgetting?
Yes. Fitting a TS head on a Nord block requires in total 17 different mods to make it work.

Oil passages in block vs. oil passages in head, chain gear mods (sprocket position of crank relatively to cam sprockets) and head studs/nuts (including sealing against water!) are the most important.

It's not a plug and play job!
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 05:09 AM
Are you using a 75 or a 155 head? There is a good thread covering the differences with you should review.

If a 155 you'll need a manifold block and associated plumbing to bring the radiator upper hose up front. PM me if you need help with that.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 05:12 AM
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Its from a 75 TS,Im selling him the head, Scott, look asap in your mail, I need something from you to ship the head.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 05:50 AM
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My 8V Nord makes 190 HP on pump gas with good driveability and I am confident that it would make 200 HP at about 6800 rpm with 38 mm Venturis. PM me if you want to talk about it.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
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76 Suzuki GT500
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 07:29 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunttheshunt View Post
Yes. Fitting a TS head on a Nord block requires in total 17 different mods to make it work.

Oil passages in block vs. oil passages in head, chain gear mods (sprocket position of crank relatively to cam sprockets) and head studs/nuts (including sealing against water!) are the most important.

It's not a plug and play job!
Yes, I know there are a few threads on the subject that I need to review. thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by gprocket View Post
Are you using a 75 or a 155 head? There is a good thread covering the differences with you should review.

If a 155 you'll need a manifold block and associated plumbing to bring the radiator upper hose up front. PM me if you need help with that.
Thanks, I'm going with a 75 head.

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Originally Posted by quadrifolio View Post
Its from a 75 TS,Im selling him the head, Scott, look asap in your mail, I need something from you to ship the head.
Ok, I'll check. thanks

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Originally Posted by alfaparticle View Post
My 8V Nord makes 190 HP on pump gas with good driveability and I am confident that it would make 200 HP at about 6800 rpm with 38 mm Venturis. PM me if you want to talk about it.
I'm familiar with your Nord; impressive research and results. I'm going with a TS, but I'll send a message anyway; I'm sure most of the lessons learned are applicable to both. Thanks

72 GTV; 66 Fairlane GT convt, 428, 4 sp; 68 GTO Convt, owner built 455 and TH400; 71 Javelin road race project, owner built 401, T10
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, so here's a simple question - is there any reason to use a Nord block over a TS other than the fact that I have a Nord block and crank sitting in the garage? Put another way -- am I a dumbass for wanting to use a Nord?

72 GTV; 66 Fairlane GT convt, 428, 4 sp; 68 GTO Convt, owner built 455 and TH400; 71 Javelin road race project, owner built 401, T10
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletpruf View Post
Ok, so here's a simple question - is there any reason to use a Nord block over a TS other than the fact that I have a Nord block and crank sitting in the garage? Put another way -- am I a dumbass for wanting to use a Nord?
No, there is absolutely no reason. And a TS is stronger than a 0512 block as well. TS blocks have several differences in casting leading to a much stronger block.

The only reason is you want to spend several hours on extra work for realizing the mentioned and required mods . No advantage, only extra work. Less structural and torsional rigidity included as well.

Drop me a PM if you like.

I've built 3 engines w/TS heads on Nord blocks. 2x 75, 1x 155. Only because the customers wanted that for homologation/historical basic reasons.

I never would do that if I could come across a 75 block easily. Never.
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Last edited by hunttheshunt; 07-17-2019 at 10:41 PM.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 10:40 PM
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I never would do that if I could come across a 75 block easily. Never.
Totally agree
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 05:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunttheshunt View Post
No, there is absolutely no reason. And a TS is stronger than a 0512 block as well. TS blocks have several differences in casting leading to a much stronger block.

The only reason is you want to spend several hours on extra work for realizing the mentioned and required mods . No advantage, only extra work. Less structural and torsional rigidity included as well.

Drop me a PM if you like.

I've built 3 engines w/TS heads on Nord blocks. 2x 75, 1x 155. Only because the customers wanted that for homologation/historical basic reasons.

I never would do that if I could come across a 75 block easily. Never.
Thanks for the detailed response. I appreciate it.

72 GTV; 66 Fairlane GT convt, 428, 4 sp; 68 GTO Convt, owner built 455 and TH400; 71 Javelin road race project, owner built 401, T10
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 05:47 AM Thread Starter
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Totally agree
Thanks, John.

72 GTV; 66 Fairlane GT convt, 428, 4 sp; 68 GTO Convt, owner built 455 and TH400; 71 Javelin road race project, owner built 401, T10
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 06:11 AM Thread Starter
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Starting to look at camshaft options -

I see Alfaholics has 4 different profiles to choose from with their TS cams. Spendy at $850 or so.

C&B cams can be had for $700 or so for a pair.

Cat Cams in the UK is a new one for me; they have about half a dozen different profiles - Alfa Romeo 75 & 164 2.0L Twin Spark

Tij Power in Germany lists 4 different grinds as well - https://www.tij-power.com/product_in...ucts_id=168339

72 GTV; 66 Fairlane GT convt, 428, 4 sp; 68 GTO Convt, owner built 455 and TH400; 71 Javelin road race project, owner built 401, T10
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletpruf View Post
Starting to look at camshaft options -

I see Alfaholics has 4 different profiles to choose from with their TS cams. Spendy at $850 or so.

C&B cams can be had for $700 or so for a pair.

Cat Cams in the UK is a new one for me; they have about half a dozen different profiles - Alfa Romeo 75 & 164 2.0L Twin Spark

Tij Power in Germany lists 4 different grinds as well - https://www.tij-power.com/product_in...ucts_id=168339
I'm using a set of cams from Richard Jemison for my Twin Spark build.

Mike
1969 GTV 1750
1966 Super
San Diego, CA

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 10:04 AM
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This Nord information relates to your prospective TS build.
Jim Steck recently dyno'd a race motor with cams from Paul Spruell. He then swapped out the exhaust cam for an RJ785 from Richard Jemison and made no other changes. The RJ785 made a little more peak HP but it made almost 25 HP more at 5000 rpm. The Spruell cam has longer duration. So beware of long duration cams!
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76 Suzuki GT500
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A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 10:08 AM
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Ed,

190HP from a Nord sounds amazing! What compression ratio are you running? Pump gas?

Mike
1969 GTV 1750
1966 Super
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