Alfa Romeo Spider 1750 Iniezione won't run (US Spec, Spica injected 1969) - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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Question Alfa Romeo Spider 1750 Iniezione won't run (US Spec, Spica injected 1969)

Hello everyone,
we need your help!

We own a 1969 Alfa Romeo Spider 1750 Iniezione (Spica Injection) that will start but then die. The engine starts almost immediately and goes up to about 1100rpm and then it dies.
Does anyone know what our Problem could be? We have tried almost everything and are out of ideas. This car just won't run.

We have changed all filters, the fuel tank and lines, the coil, spark plugs and our Spica pump has been rebuilt. We set the ignition timing and checked the pump for correct timing. As the engine starts, you can smell that it is getting enough gas (not too much) and the throttle setting has been checked as well.
We tried setting the ignition timing, checked all connections and lines and did everything as written in Wes Ingram's Book and other Alfa Manuals.

Maybe @Roadtrip has any ideas?

Thanks in Advance.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 09:39 AM
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While I know little about SPICA, I'll ask a question that might help (and, even if it does not it will bump your post up so maybe someone who does know will see it...).

Does your car have an electronic or mechanical tach? An electronic tach works off a signal from the coil. If it has an electronic tach watch what it does as the engine runs then dies. If the needle drops and then the engine dies the issue is likely ignition related. If the needle reads as the engine dies it is likely fuel related.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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It has a mechanical tach. We tested every part in the ignition system. Everything should be good. It must have something to do with the fuel but we are not exactly sure why it seems to be getting not enough fuel. Because the pump and the injectors were rebuilt, everything should be alright there. (It ran bad but it did before a lot was rebuilt. Thank you for your reply!
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 11:07 AM
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Do you still have the original 69 1750 spica pump installed? A T237/1? They are different than the rest and it would be good to know if that's what we are talking about. Almost sounds like it's running just on the cold start solenoid but I don't know if you have one of those. Did this just happen all of a sudden, after storage, or? Is your fuel pressure light going on then off when you first turn the key on?

Cheers,
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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@vintagemilano : It is an original 1750 Spica Pump from '69. The fuel pressure light goes off and stays off after turning the key. The car is in the process of rebuilding but was in storage before. It didn't work as it should that's why we had our pump rebuilt. We have a CSS which is working and yes, it seems like it is just running on the solenoid although the pump was rebuilt pretty recently.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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What would you say which fuel supply pump should be installed? I heard that 15-20psi are perfect but another source says that you should never have more than 17psi because otherwise the Pressure Relieve Valve on the front fuel filter is always open. Our current (new) pump has about 14,5psi and seems to be working just fine. Any suggestions what would be good? Do you think that could be a problem or even the only one?
no one was able to tell us so far what pressure would be best.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 11:34 AM
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Hi there, go to this post and get the fuel supply diagnostic guide by roadtrip, it will give you all you need to know about fuel pressure. Though 14.5 sounds great.
Are you doing the work yourself or is a shop doing this. It's seeming like something went sideways on reinstall of the rebuilt pump so things that attach to it would be worth double checking. Did it get a rebuilt thermostatic actuator at the same time? Are the fuel hoses backwards? Throttle plates are totally closed and idle air hoses are not blocked? Can you keep it running after it initially revs up? What poor running conditions were the cause of choosing to get the pump rebuilt?

Cheers,
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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@vintagemilano : Thanks, we already have the fuel supply diagnostic guide by roadtrip. We are doing the work ourselves. Everything should be alright with the reinstall of the pump. We have double-checked everything. We got a rebuilt TA just recently from Wes Ingram. The fuel hoses have just been renewed and are not on backwards. Throttle plates are totally closed and idle air hoses are not blocked, correct. No, we can not keep it running (other then "pumping" the gas pedal but that is awful). The car was in storage for 13 years and alfa mechanics messed things up with the pump. The TA was broken and it did things like hunting (and else). We started to replace a lot of parts that can cause trouble and decided to get the pump rebuilt mainly because we were getting way too much gas in our oil.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 01:36 PM
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Put a tee in the fuel line between the main filter/regulator and the Spica pump. Install a pressure gauge in the leg of the Tee.

After turning the key to “on”, have someone watch the gauge, insuring it is somewhere between 14-19.

Start the car. Have someone watch the gauge to see what it does leading up to the engine shut-down. If the pressure falls prior to engine shut down, you know your problem is between the tank and the regulator. If the pressure holds prior to shut down, it’s either the Spica pump or ignition.

I thought 69s did not have a CSS. If it does, your pump could be failed in some way, and you’re running on the CSS until you stop cranking the starter.

Don P
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Past Alfas...
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65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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We do have enough pressure and we do know now that it is not just running on the CSS. We are looking for the problem somewhere in the ignition system.

Dennis
Alfa Romeo Spider, 1750 Iniezione w/ Spica Injection built in 1969.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 04:54 PM
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Hot wire the coil to remove the ign switch. That should keep the car running if the ign system is ok. also turn all of the fuses in the fuse box as they may also be making poor contact. Also when you installed the repaired I/F pump was it set up per Wes 's book? Good luck
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 05:27 PM
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Hi 1750Iniezone

Please list your location. Are you in the USA?

Bye
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 06:23 PM
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The most likely cause is a stuck Fuel cut-off device. This is activated on deceleration. If its a later electronic FCS type pump 71-up, un-hook the white wire at the micro switch and it should be fine. If it is the correct early "69 only" mechanical FC device, try turning the knurled know CCW a few turns and see if it un-sticks. Good luck. Ohhhh make sure the pump belt isn't broken.
RML
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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The Pump was reinstalled per Wes' Book. We have tried the fuel cut off option but that wasn't it either. The screw is just fine. We are located in Bavaria, Germany.

Dennis
Alfa Romeo Spider, 1750 Iniezione w/ Spica Injection built in 1969.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Also, all fuses have good contact and the pump belt isn't broken. The pump timing is set correctly as well.

Dennis
Alfa Romeo Spider, 1750 Iniezione w/ Spica Injection built in 1969.
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