Centerline 11.1 cam - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 3,952
Quote:
In engines built for the Motronic FI system with the large diameter BC intake that exhaust cam is a much better exhaust lobe design and the one I suggest using with the likes of the 10548 cam, and mild aftermarket cams on the intake.
This is good to know. Something I always like about these discussions is that they generally produce additional useful information. And the more good information we can have the better. The Alfabb is a genuinely unique resource in that regard. I've never encountered anything comparable to it.

I posted my comments because our cam choice was an expedient, the result of me deciding that I didn't want to take the time to notch the cam follower bores so I could run my 12mm Delta cam. The results were so surprisingly good---much better than I was expecting---that I thought I would add a factoid on cam choice to the BB's knowledge base. Using asymmetrical cams remains something of a black art and so I think it's fun to accidentally stumble across something that works. Is this the best combination? Nope. And I don't think it makes the hp of the Delta A474 12mm cam/Centerline 11.1mm combination which will go on the new head I intend to build. That said, I posted my comments because the combination works real good. If you have a stock Spica cam to use, the Centerline 11.1mm cam sells for $229US. That's a cheap entry fee for the kind of performance improvement you'll get.
davbert and slowcreek like this.

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
180OUT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 02:12 PM
Registered User
 
slowcreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Prescott, Az
Posts: 510
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaparticle View Post
Slowcreek, I think that you could pick up maybe 5 HP with a change of LC's. I would advance the intake one hole to about 99 and verify that you have at least .050" piston-valve clearance then retard the exhaust two holes to about 108 and check that you have at least .100" clearance. Then take it back to the dyno.
This one hasn't been on the dyno. It's my Sport Sedan. It will be soon though.

I'll take the timing changes to heart though after that.

78 Spider, Webers, header, Shankle cams, bumperless, lowered, Konis
78 Sport Sedan, header, Spica
slowcreek is offline  
post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 05:13 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 537
Garage
Dumb luck is better than no luck.

Thank you for sharing
930cabman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 05:28 PM
Registered User
 
slowcreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Prescott, Az
Posts: 510
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 930cabman View Post
Dumb luck is better than no luck.

Thank you for sharing

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.

78 Spider, Webers, header, Shankle cams, bumperless, lowered, Konis
78 Sport Sedan, header, Spica
slowcreek is offline  
post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 06:33 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ozark, MO.
Posts: 712
Great to know. Thanks for posting. AlfaParticle who are the big power guys running 98-99 degree intake lobe center and what cams are they doing it with? At least in a near full or full race application it's hard for me to imagine advancing the intake that far not having a detrimental effect.

[B]Curtis Wood[/B]
curtisATthiscrazygarageDOTcom
Curtis is offline  
post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 07:22 PM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
alfaparticle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 12,286
Hi Curtis,
Jim Steck's motors are typically 98/108. Msiert's black spider road car made 167 HP at the wheels on pump gas. Steve Schwitters built the motor and it was about 98/108. My street motor made 155 HP at the wheels with RJ575/457 cams at 98/108.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
alfaparticle is offline  
post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 08:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ozark, MO.
Posts: 712
Interesting Ed, The 2L must be more different than my 1600 than I thought. The dyno has never suggested I advance a 1300 or 1600 intake past 102 and they usually seem happiest around 104. This includes my current engine with Steve's intake and RJs exhaust. If I ever build a 2000 I better ask around I guess!!

[B]Curtis Wood[/B]
curtisATthiscrazygarageDOTcom
Curtis is offline  
post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 07:25 AM
Richard Jemison
Platinum Subscriber
 
Alfar7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, Fl. U.S.A.
Posts: 6,781
Cam timing

I have never used "EFFECTIVE CAM CENTERS" that far advanced as it "would & should" bias the power band to lower RPM ranges (Which you might want for a street car)

Given: Jim`s head mods and intake designs and piston shapes are VERY different.
Most racers using my "race cams" typically find good results using my base line LCs of 104/104 or 104/106. Both of the engines in my two race cars are set at 103/106 now. A 104-105 LSA seems appropriate for the typical Alfa intake length. BUT, I`m using a shorter intake track length with very large raised ports (short custom manifold, 1" air horns in the cold air box) and 50mm DCO carbs. Hayes Flynn`s 230hp/215 hp (different RjR cams in same engine) and Ed`s use only a modified factory airbox (rounded 52mm openings to the 45 DCOE carbs I modified internally).
All these intake track differences have to be considered when choosing LCs of any cam, and the dyno adjustments are pretty much required to optimize the power band.

Key points of making real power are closing the intake valve "early" enough to limit the amount of reversion, and delaying the opening of the exhaust (and still get it closed before P to V issues) to lengthen the power stroke.

My newest Race intakes have total "off the seat duration (at .010" "lash" settings of 298* int. and 276* exh. Key points are durations at .050 are 265* int and 246* exhaust which is where "flow" really starts, and very high durations from there upward 125* int and 110* exh at 450 lift. (Total lifts are .525 int. and .495 exh)

Richard Jemison
RJR Racing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"When you are dead you don`t know it.
Only those around you are distressed.
Same with stupid"

Last edited by Alfar7; 04-16-2019 at 07:29 AM.
Alfar7 is offline  
post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 09:28 AM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
alfaparticle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 12,286
Jim first advised me to advance the intake to below 100 was when I first met him at Watkins glen in 2015. The very fast 1500 Giulietta that he was supporting was running about 98/108 and he thought that my motor would benefit from similar timing. I was unable to advance the 575 that much with the Venolia pistons but road testing indicated that 101 was better than 104. My sessions on Al's dyno showed that 101 was better than 104 and 98 was best of all. The dyno charts show that the improvement was from 3000 rpm to 6200 and they were the same above 6200.
Attached Images
 

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
alfaparticle is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The little 5 mm allen head bolt on the cam positioning sensor that could davebrossi 164 & 168 (1991-1995) 9 11-09-2014 03:38 PM
Piston to Valve Clearance Vintre Spider - 105 & 115 Series (1966-1994) 21 02-24-2014 06:20 PM
Exhausting Cam Question andy303 Engine Repair, Diagnostics & Rebuilding 3 06-09-2010 05:28 PM
Cam Cap Oil Flow ianmac Engine Repair, Diagnostics & Rebuilding 10 06-04-2007 09:21 AM
Cam Cover Discovery RedSpider Spider - 105 & 115 Series (1966-1994) 4 04-21-2007 06:37 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome