2 Liter motor. Diagnosis and rebuild. - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #31 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaparticle View Post
I would keep looking.
PM me your sources...

There is this...
https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/...723754462.html

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post #32 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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If anyone is interested, this thread is my Subaru Motor build...
Kinda gives a reference point to how I do stuff.
And Yes, I can get pissy if i'm poked...

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2755274

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post #33 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 03:27 PM
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Check e-bay.
I bought an Alfetta engine w/Dellorto carbs for $250.
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post #34 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
Check e-bay.
I bought an Alfetta engine w/Dellorto carbs for $250.
I have been watching, and looking...

There is a rusty 2.0 crank starting at $70 plus $90 shipping....

And this for $3k...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Alfa-Romeo-...egtn:rk:7:pf:0

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Last edited by Keyspider; 10-19-2018 at 03:35 PM.
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post #35 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyspider View Post
I have been watching, and looking...

There is a rusty 2.0 crank starting at $70 plus $90 shipping....

And this for $3k...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Alfa-Romeo-...egtn:rk:7:pf:0
Patience is the word here. You don't need this engine next week. And don't worry about the crankshaft-yours can be reground and will be a known quality part.
Have you priced machine work to repair this block?
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post #36 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input ChasH...
First I'm one for counting my eggs, not my chickens...

I can hope, but I needed some "Me Time" with a cold beer, a chill, calm mind... and a Micrometer...



The crank is NOW a known quantity, as of today.

After some serious cleaning, I put my best Metrology head on, determined which Micrometer was correct.

Here are my crank numbers:

All Journals Measured in 4 places.
Forward and Rearward, inline with the stroke.
Forward and Rearward at 90 deg to stroke.
Please excuse my Imperial Measurement... I am a Brit, work better in Metric, but only have good Inch Micrometers!

Main Journals.
Reference sizes are:
Red spot Main Journals which should be 2.3608" to 2.3610"
Blue Spot Main Journals which should be 2.3602" to 2.3606"

1/ Stroke: F=2.3606" R=2.3607"
90 deg F=2.3607" R=2.3607"

2/ Stroke: F=2.3606" R=2.3607"
90 deg F=2.3607" R=2.3606"

3/ Stroke: F=2.3606" R=2.3607"
90 deg F=2.3608" R=2.3608"

4/ Stroke: F=2.3610" R=2.3604"
90 deg F=2.3611" R=2.3608"


5/ Stroke: F=2.3608" R=2.3608"
90 deg F=2.3609" R=2.3608"

Rod Journals.
Reference sizes are:
Red spot Journals which should be 1.9680" to 1.9684"
Blue Spot journals which should be 1.9676" to 1.9680"

1/ Stroke: F=1.9680" R=1.9680"
90 deg F=1.9680" R=1.9679"

2/ Stroke: F=1.9680" R=1.9680"
90 deg F=1.9680" R=1.9680"

3/ Stroke: F=1.9680" R=1.9679"
90 deg F=1.9680" R=1.9680"

4/ Stroke: F=1.9678" R=1.9678"
90 deg F=1.9678" R=1.9679"

So, what do we have here?

Obviously, the #4 Main is the biggest concern, and to a lesser extent, #4 Rod, is the low but still in spec for Blue.

My thoughts were:
Have the Crank shop turn #4 Main Journal, and see if it cleans up... and if not, weld it and return it to STD.
Re-nitrite, if needed.

What I don't know/understand is what size STD bearings are available now???
Advice/Knowledge?

Now, onto the bigger issue... That Block...

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Last edited by Keyspider; 11-07-2018 at 10:25 AM.
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post #37 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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I cleaned, reassembled, and Torqued the bottom end of the Block to spec(35 ftlb).



I did measure the mains, but the numbers are invalid as I discovered later(see above post), an issue with the Micrometer I used to set my Zero.
For those unfamiliar with a Bore gauge, you find out what the exact size of the bore you will be measuring is, and set a micrometer to that size.
You then set the bore gauge to zero at that size in the micrometer...
From that point the Bore gauge just tells you what the variance is from that Zero point.

Anyway, my concern was and still is #4 main... and now I know pretty much what the deal is..

The forensics will speak for themselves...


As stated before, #4 cap bolts were loose... #4 Main Bearing upper and lower were destroyed.

With everything cleaned and torqued, the issue was pretty obvious...
Look at these pictures of #4 Main bearing housing. with the cap in and torqued...

This is a ground straight edge, sitting on #4 main, in the block(Block is upside down).
See the way its sitting on the sides, with a gap in the middle???
I tried to measure it... tricky but I got at least 0.1mm or 0.0040, but I bet its more.




In illustration, this pic speaks...
Look at the way the Cap is overhanging... and the way the bearing had imprinted its markings on the housing as it moved around.


Here is the other side...


So, for whatever reason, #4 main cap was loose enough for the upper and lower main bearing to "Walk" around and chaff/wear the cap and housing.

The part that really surprises me is that the bearings didn't "Spin" in the housing!

My mission this next week is to talk to some good machine shops and find out if they can weld #4 bearing and re-machine back to spec without touching the rest!

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Last edited by Keyspider; 11-07-2018 at 10:30 AM.
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post #38 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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And final update for the night...

Pistons.

Happy with what I see...


#1/
Skirts are near perfect.
Second Compression ring was stuck in it groove.. rust I think, as there is signs on the oil ring assembly.





#2
Skirt was also near perfect, but some rust staining on one side.
Again, second compression is stuck in it groove, and rust visible on the oil ring assembly.





3/
Skirt has some tiny marks, but I dont see an issue.
Rust in oil rings visible.




4/
Minor marks/rust stains on the skirts.
Top ring stuck in its groove. Rust in oil control ring.




All the rod ends look good, and original bearings were ok, but will be replaced anyway.

I am planning to Soda blast these, replace the rings, a light hone of the cylinders and they will be good to go!

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Last edited by Keyspider; 11-07-2018 at 10:34 AM.
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post #39 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 09:05 PM
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Don't forget to check the crank for runout.
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post #40 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-21-2018, 04:58 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Chas, but I had not forgotten.
I actually tried to do it a couple of days ago, but the Dial indicator I had to hand just would not reach into #3 main. The one I normally use, I must have put away somewhere safe... so safe I can’t find it! 😀

Can anyone enlighten me on what bearing sets are available these days and from where?

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post #41 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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I found my Dial indicator!

Cleaned and set #1 and #5 main bearing in the block housing, added a dab of assembly lube and lowered the crank in.
Didn't put the caps on... I think that is the ways its normally done...

It spins smoothly, and with a good flick it will do a couple of revolutions.
I did notice that one it does stop(At random points, I noticed), it kinda stuck, and takes a bit of twist to break it free from its parking spot.
Assume that some bearing and crank roughness.

Tried to set up the Dial indicator...
The problem is/was that even the plunger style was impossible to fit in between the Crank webs, and the #3 main studs.
I tried top remove the main stud and failed... the double nuts were not cooperating!

Anyway, after much fiddling and cursing, I went back to my Mitotoyo finger style as it has a small body, and got a reading...
0.0022".
Factory manual says no more than 0.0059", so its OK, but its more than I would like.

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post #42 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 10:00 PM
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This is a great thread Keyspider, one of the first bottom end discussions I have seen so far, thanks so much for putting this out here. Good luck with the build.
Tim
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post #43 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-23-2018, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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This is a great thread Keyspider, one of the first bottom end discussions I have seen so far, thanks so much for putting this out here. Good luck with the build.
Tim
Thanks Tim,
As I have stated, I'm no expert, especially on Alfa motors, and I'm fishing for info too!

I'm also wide open to observations, and constructive criticism, on what I am doing and this motor.

Still awaiting info on bearings.....
Anyone?

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post #44 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-28-2018, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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I tried to get the liners out, but obviously I was not trying hard enough... I think the comment about them falling out when you didn't want them to move and being stuck when you wanted them out is about right!

Gonna make a tool if they are gonna be stubborn!

I have ordered a set of STD main and rod bearings so I can do some more testing/measuring!

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post #45 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-28-2018, 12:07 PM
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I tried to get the liners out, but obviously I was not trying hard enough... I think the comment about them falling out when you didn't want them to move and being stuck when you wanted them out is about right!

Gonna make a tool if they are gonna be stubborn!

I have ordered a set of STD main and rod bearings so I can do some more testing/measuring!
I made a cabinet for the block to place in front of a kerosene fired space heater. A little heat goes wonders. Use care pulling out liners if the adjacent liner is out.
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