1300 engine rebuilt & lightened flywheel - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 02:29 AM Thread Starter
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I was born in Milan 1961, in the late sixties / beginning of the seventies my father used to drive a 1750 Berlina and later, after it was stolen, a 2000 Berlina, my mother (german) drove a BMW 1602 and after a BMW 2002 Touring, so, for those days, fairly good cars in my family.

The approach to these cars, we now define as sporty classics, not only Alfa Romeo, also Lancia, BMW etc. is very different today compared to the time those were on the market,.
Further, the differences between US and Europe regarding market, customer requirements, taste, way to drive, roads, petrol cost etc. were a lot bigger in the sixties - seventies than today in the globalized market.

So the discussion about quality of design and driving skills might become complex because there are so many aspects to consider (this might become a new interesting tread).

Cars like Giulia or Lancia Fulvia were cars for the middle class.
GT 1300 Junior or Lancia Fulvia Coupè were dream cars for young people, normally lucky to drive their mothers Fiat 500.
2000 Berlina or a Lancia Flavia were a cars for a lawyer or a boss of a small/middle company.
These cars were all daily drivers for italian roads, mostly driven by men, in some rare cases by women.

Automatic transmission was completely unknown in Italy at that time (in some way, even today), people knew how to operate a clutch because everybody learned to drive on cars with non synchronized gearboxes, to shift down they had to know how to make a “doppietta” (I don't know the english for that). I wonder how many of you are able to shift down a non synchronized gearbox, at those times also grandma knew how to do it.

Cars were designed to last >10 years and engines about 100.000 km; today a car is mature for the scrap yard after 4 - 5 years with not many more km. So, considering the different times, one could say that design isn’t much better today.

At that time a clutch had to be replaced after 40 - 70.000 km, depending from the driving style.
Shops had a lot of normal maintenance to do like oil change every 5000 km etc. and it was normal to rebuild engines more than one time during the entire life of a car. The work of a mechanic was very different from today.

Cars with poor design didn’t stay in business at that time like it happens today.

And regarding quality, I can remember my father, after the 2000 Berlina, bought a Volvo, I think a 244, a nightmare! No power, high fuel consumption, no brakes, bad suspension, parts falling off etc. Volvo is still in US, Alfa had to leave. So things used to be / are very different seen from the two sides of the pond.

Im looking forward to read your comments!
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GTV 2000 - 1972, GTJ 1300 - 1970, Fiat 500 R - 1974 current project

Last edited by acalvi; 02-26-2015 at 07:34 AM.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 09:20 AM
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Excellent commentary, with a real world point of view.


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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2015, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Cars were designed to last >10 years and engines about 100.000 km; today a car is mature for the scrap yard after 4 - 5 years with not many more km. So, considering the different times, one could say that design isn’t much better today.
That is not the experiense I have, In my oppinion modern cars are built to last much longer. They are carefully designed and protected from factory to resist rust much better than 20-40 years ago. At that time it was not unusually that a brand new car could show signs of rust. Nobody would accept that now.
Modern engines are not designed to be rebuilt, but it is still possible if somebody wanted to undertake such a task, the price of man hours are just to high to make it profitable.
In return modern engines are designed to last much longer. Most european engines sees at least 350.000 km and if properly maintained most of them lasts way more.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2015, 01:11 PM
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The engineering analysis of the initial design is better today, as computers can accurately predict the street life of a specific spot weld related to body flex and so on. However even the best engineered cars made today, are designed with a specific anticipated service life, otherwise, any auto builder could put themselves out of business by building a car that could be economically repaired, essentially forever!


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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-28-2015, 02:25 AM Thread Starter
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I totally agree with what Lani and Gordon say.
My statement wanted to be a little provocative, a reaction to the idea about poor design of Alfa Romeo.
The design just was up to date, based on the technologies and Knowledge of those days.
Alfa Romeo were designed at a high level, with something magic other makers didn't have, the demonstration is our love and passion for these cars.
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GTV 2000 - 1972, GTJ 1300 - 1970, Fiat 500 R - 1974 current project
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-28-2015, 06:08 AM
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50 years from now an old alfa can and will be restored..... 50 years from now a 2015 modern car with all its computers and plastic parts can not be restored. most modern cars now are basically disposable items. Jim

Now....93 164s, 91 164s, 91 164L, 79 spider, '31 Ford model A Rat Rod, 88 Milano 3.0, 87 testarossa, 05 SL600 twin turbo V-12, 82 GTV6-3.0, Dodge Ram
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-28-2015, 06:20 AM
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Alfaman is so right. I try to help others on Fixya and it amazes me how many 2014 and later cars have major issues. Most of these problems are with complex electrical systems many of us consider uneeded. While modern fuel injection has its benefits, bluetooth cell phone links, ABS and even power windows I can do without. My 2 cents...
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-28-2015, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
most modern cars now are basically disposable items.
I would have to respectfully disagree. I think its more a persona that modern cars are disposable. Properly maintained they will last a lifetime. Its simply easier today to buy a vehicle; drive it for 2 to 3 years and get another.

Jason
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-01-2015, 07:51 AM Thread Starter
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Everybody of us owner of a classic car has a modern car as daily driver.
What we expect from a classic is different from what a modern car can give. From a modern car we expect performance, confort, reliability etc. from classic cars manly emotions.
If a modern car has a problem we get upset, if our classic car has a problem we have a challenge. Sometimes problems never end with some classic cars an we keep on fixing, after a few failures on a modern car we start hating it.
Passion can be addressed to modern cars too, if they have something special, but I think classic cars, also popular cars as a simple Fiat 500 (I mean the old one), have a sort of soul that is very difficult to find in a modern. A modern Ferrari still has a soul, a Volkswagen, an Audi, a BMW, witch we might enjoy don't have a soul. Maybe the soul has been replaced by a computer.

GTV 2000 - 1972, GTJ 1300 - 1970, Fiat 500 R - 1974 current project
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acalvi View Post
Everybody of us owner of a classic car has a modern car as daily driver.
What we expect from a classic is different from what a modern car can give. From a modern car we expect performance, confort, reliability etc. from classic cars manly emotions.
If a modern car has a problem we get upset, if our classic car has a problem we have a challenge. Sometimes problems never end with some classic cars an we keep on fixing, after a few failures on a modern car we start hating it.
Passion can be addressed to modern cars too, if they have something special, but I think classic cars, also popular cars as a simple Fiat 500 (I mean the old one), have a sort of soul that is very difficult to find in a modern. A modern Ferrari still has a soul, a Volkswagen, an Audi, a BMW, witch we might enjoy don't have a soul. Maybe the soul has been replaced by a computer.
Vey good insight I have a modern car (2004, modern for me ) and it has so many things wrong with it. Not because I don't maintain it but poor build quality and so much plastic and I hate it . My spider is on the restoration road because I love it (but so much to do) The 1989 75 twin spark in my signature is my partners car . The 72 gtj is a new addition.
P.S. we really are off topic hey

Current cars 1975 spyder under resto, 1973 Berlina Resto 1976 Berlina parts car 1972 GTjunior fully restored, 1 complete rolling shell spyder.exit 1989 75 T/S sold
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-03-2015, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acalvi View Post
My engine was smoking too much because valve guides were worn.
I started with the head and finished rebuilding the hole engine.
Kept pistons and cylinders that were in good shape from the previous rebuilt in 1985 but had to change the crankshaft.
I also lightened flywheel, about 900 grams less, machined edges were smoothed.
Everything was balanced.
Camshafts were already modified (but I have no specification).
Now the engine runs great (reached 6200 rpm) and no more oil clouds following me !
Just out of curiosity, why only 6200 rpm? My 1300 reaches max power at 7700 rpm, and reaches 8000 rpm maximum.


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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-04-2015, 07:09 AM Thread Starter
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Impressive!

I must admit I didn't have the guts to go further on the open road.
I didn't test on a rolling road.
Driving at 7700 rpm would mean 140 km/h in third gear or 190 km/h in fourth with my setup. Next time I'm in Monza I will see how many rpm I can reach.
Tell us more about your engine.

GTV 2000 - 1972, GTJ 1300 - 1970, Fiat 500 R - 1974 current project
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-04-2015, 08:21 AM
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I made a thread a couple of years ago when I rebuilt my engine: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engi...00-junior.html

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