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Technical Questions And Rj`s Suggestions

180K views 507 replies 63 participants last post by  Fwkwallis 
#1 ·
I get endless questions on engine building, cam issues and gearbox problems that I will share on this thread as others can benefit from the information.

I will start a similar one on the transmission / transaxle area for those type questions.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Cam Timing issues

In a message dated 7/4/2014 1:57:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, johnxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Dear Richard,


sorry to bother you with our Euro problems, I´ve a good friend how does hillclims with an Alfa GT 2000. He´s also a good mechanic but he made the same mistake all people around here make, he bought Catcams for he´s engine development, the 1030243 Catcam, I attach the data sheet of those cams. The problem, as allways, is that both cams are the same and what is happening is that the Ex valves are touching the pistons slithgly.


I told him many times to buy cams from you, but he forgot about that when he made the purchase (stupid him). I also told him about this problem that the valve will hit the piston due to to much overlap and lift on the Ex side and sugest him to use the C&B AR.120.292.S with 292º and 12mm of lift on the Ex side that he has.(no money left)


Some data of the Engine:


Motronic P&L


The usuall stuff, bottom end balanced, head ported & blueprinted, etc.......


Measured 10,5:1 CR (head was milled to get to the CR target)


Running with 48 DCO´s


Please would you recommend me LC´s to have a starting point to work with?


Many thanks for your time and regards.


John

If you look at not just the data but at the graph of the lobes you can see that at the lash setting which is .20mm (.008) the valve events have at least 75-80 degrees of overlap.
Far to much even for a race engine as all it will produce is very high RPM power.

Two things can be attempted to improve the setup so engine is better timed as to valve events and clear the internals.

First increase lash from .008 (.2mm) to .012 int (.25mm)and .014 exh.(.28mm) this will get the off the seat opening farther up the opening ramp and reduce the overlap.

Secondly, open the Lobe centers from 105 to 108 intake and 110 exhaust. This will improve both the excessive overlap and increase the Lobe Separation Angle to better match Alfa`s intake runner length.
It also advances the cams "centerline" improving mid range output. This could be done before taking the effort to change lash just to see the difference in output with only this change

The only way to really make improvements economically is to use a true exhaust design cam to correct valve timing events to make more torque and power.

His application requires a broad torque curve not peakey hp. These cams are not going to provide what he needs.

Rj

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


In a message dated 7/7/2014 1:35:43 A.M. Central Daylight Time, john.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:

Thanks for that Richard!!


We´ve still the same problem, we can not go on the Ex cam to 110 LC because the valve touching piston, the pistons are Motronics but the valve pockets havent been worked (deepened) so they are still standard height, we have try lash of .50mm on the EX side and still touching so we are forced to go back to the C&B AR.120.292S on the Ex side (less lift).


So, having to use this combo, In Catcam & Ex C&B, should we start from the same set up? IN 108LC & EX 110LC??

John

John, you are doing it incorrectly if you are having P to V issues at 110 LCs.

On the intake side LC marks are Before Top Dead Center "BTDC" . The larger that LC (110 opposed to 102) the more RETARDED is the camshaft. (Cam is rolled counter clockwise to increase LCs(as viewed from in front of the engine). Valve clearance relative to the piston is increased.

On the exhaust side LC marks are After Bottom Dead Center (ABDC) the marks will increase on the exhaust side of the cap. (Not the intake side of the cap as on the intake)
Increasing the LC to 110 ADVANCES the cam (clockwise) so that the valve closes earlier and increases P to V clearance.

As to using another old high overlap on the exhaust side you wont get much performance benefit, but set the LC at 110 initially but close both based on info below.

Below is the short version of some of my setup info:

Initial timing and valve piston check:

This is very important as when cams advance the piston clearance reduces dramatically.
Set Intake and exhaust cams at initial LCs as indicated by provider set up instructions, and lash
settings.
By running the .050 plastic wire-tie between the Intake valve & piston, and .100 (or .080 ) on
the Exhaust side you can check if there is any interference and see that you have adequate
clearance between piston & valve. If by turning motor over by hand you feel some interferance
using a .050 thick wire-tie, (or .080 on Exhaust) but the motor continues to roll through, you are
at the limit! YOU MUST ROLL THE MOTOR OVER OVER BOTH FORWARDS &
BACKWARDS TO BE SURE THERE IS CLEARANCE AT THE LIMITS!! WHEN OFF
THROTTLE CHAIN TENSION REVERSES!!
If it locks up, retard the cam(intake side, (however you would advance the exhaust cam a degree or more to
get more clearance) a degree (or a couple of degrees) and try again until the clearance is found.
I suggest as a test to find this limit, you advance the intake cam until you do, and permanently
mark that point on the cam cap. That will be the point where the cam must NOT be advanced
past.
Then do the same with the exhaust only retarding it until the limit is found.
Timing initially is dependant on design of cam lobe, & internal (pistons) components. Aggressive large duration cams will be more retarded.(intake) and advanced (exhaust) because of ramp & valve lift.
Tighten and instal lock nut on intake and bolt through sprocket and cam nut. Inspect carefully.
Roll the crankover by hand to verify timing.
When the intake cam is at the limit, or LC setting whichever is less advanced. You are there! That`s as good as it can get with your combination of components.
 
#3 ·
re: 1600 performance mods

In a message dated 6/25/2014 6:36:21 A.M. Central Daylight Time, arnoxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com writes:

Dear Richard,



Hope this email finds you well. I have been contemplating emailing you for a long time, but never did because I could not find the budget for the modifications. Yesterday I read your website again and just decided to do, also to prepare for the future.



My English is ok, but I don’t feel confident in calls etc. Therefore the email Sorry for that, I hope you don’t mind.



Background:

I have been in the possession of a Giulietta Sprint for approximately 15 years now. Once a 1300 normale (dcd carb) , it now has a 1600, light flywheel, veloce (1300) exaust manifold and dual webers. It makes about 106hp, 143NM on the rolling road. The pistons are standard. I am using the car / or my parents are /for road rallying in Europe. Endurance with a quick pace. ‘Bad’ fuel and mountains to climb. Picture attached!



Plans:

I have a spare cylinder head that is lying there for a couple of years but is in good order. I heard via a local Alfa forum that you have some excellent cam (designs) for alfa engines that give real punch. I am focussing on buying these in the upcoming months, (if I understand correctly – via you is possible and cheaper? Than via webcams), but would like to make sure it all fits nicely together. If possible, I can now do some (small) mods to the existing cylinder head to come to a nice recipe for the Giulietta that can drive on 95 Octane and have a nice sweet engine that pulls.



I was thinking of raising compression a bit (to enough; maximum is 110,5mm I understand), maybe opening the ports a bit near the seats, if needed fitting a larger inlet valve and other valve guides. This combined with (one of?) your cams. I have a 10548 on the inlet now, and a 1600 standard on the exhaust. On the internet I see a lot of (very expensive) cylinder heads with additional HP etc, but I cannot afford this. However, I understand that you are the expert for ‘real’ tuning against fair pricing. So I hope you might be willing to guide me to some alternative ideas – any input is appreciated!?



With kind regards,

Arno xxxxxxxxxxx

Rotterdam - Netherlands

Van: AlfaR7@aol.com [mailto:AlfaR7@aol.com]
Verzonden: donderdag 26 juni 2014 16:18
Aan: arnoxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcom

Onderwerp: Re: Giulietta 1600 Road endurance rally



Arno, it is very easy to improve the 1600 engines output without spending a lot of $$.

You really gain nothing with larger valves. Alfa used the same ones on the 1750 series. (But that was a get by interim motor until the 2 liter design and castings were finished)

HEAD:

Open the seats internally with a 75 degree cutter to the point that you are leaving a .040 seat surface for the very outer rim of the stock valve. Retain the 30 degree stock seat. No 3 angle cut! just the 30 degree seat to the 75 degree inner cut. Break the sharp edge at the junction just enough that it isn`t sharp. (Gases (fluids) do bot follow "curves" and the key to volumn increases is size/space). Larger valves are just an additional obstruction!

You will find that the 75 degree cutter will actually go past the bottom of the seat into the aluminum bowl blending the contact area perfectly.

Then remove the valve guides and open the port so that the port is a strait run to the bowl/valve seat on the sides from the manifold opening inward.

Replace the guides using the short bronze exhaust guides built for the stock 3.0 Liter V6 . Theses use the green viton seals and are perfect for both int and exh.

Set the guides so there is only 10.5mm to 11mm protruding above the aluminum bottom of the valve spring bore. This leaves room for any cam lift up to 13mm (which you do not need or want! for this application)

If you want to run cams with lift in excess of 11.3 MM you will need to notch the cam follower bores to clear the lobes. Again you don`t need to do so for your application as the small motors really benefit little from higher lifts than 11.3 for most applications.

For these small valve motors you do not need "performance" (stiffer) springs. Fresh stock factory springs sold for current 2 liter motors are fine for these stock smaller valves up to short runs past 7500 RPM. Less spring pressure, less valve train maintaince.

These heads can commonly be cut (surfaced) as much as .080 (2mm) from the stock thickness (4.410). Although to get your compression to a good usable range using stock 9.0 pistons (target CR 10.5) you only need to reduce the head thickness .050 (1.25mm) This will run happily on premium pump gas. If fuel quality is questionable cut the head 1mm to get about 10.2 to one which will run on our "regular" fuels.

CAMS:

The brain of the engine is the camshafts that control the valve events that determine the power producing range of the engine. Lots of overlap as old cams used (and all of Alfa`s stock cams used in "Nord" era engines, don`t make a wide power and torque band. As well using the same cam design on intake and the exhaust makes optimizing the power stroke impossible. Exhaust cams are specificly designed for that side of the engine. Critical in high output applications!

New designed cam lobes with greatly reduced overlap but more "open valve" duration make very broad power bands and far more power across the board than the old design cams.

I have attached a PDF file with full lobe profiles not only of my cams but all of Alfa`s production, the Autodelta performance cams, and many competitors cams which can be compared to see the differences in duration at specific lifts from .010 to max lift for all of them. This gives you definitive information that European cam builders give no one including their dealers.

For an application such as yours where lower RPM torque/power is needed to pull out of lower speed corners, and strong mid upper power I wouldn`t suggest more cam than the RjR429 intake and the RjR776 exhaust cam. Cams will come with correct timing and setup data to fit your application/use. FYI: LCs(LSAs) vary due to application and use, to make power where it is needed and useful. Cams/engines that only make decent power at high RPMs, will be a miserable driver on the street.

Attached are pics of stock seats from early type (1300/1600/1750 & 2liter motors & same design in all early motors 102/106/Montreal etc) engines before and after opening with 75 degree cutter. Seats in these are nothing but a section of steel or iron tube with a 30 degree seat cut! note valve guide differences

Rj


Dear Richard – wow. What an information – luckily you sent a translation with pics for dummiesJ.



I generally run in the powerband of 1700-6000 rpm. (depends on the ‘punch’). I have a fairly straight 140mn torgue curve. I will make a picture of the rolling road mapping when I am home. If you think that is the best combination, I would be interested in buying. What USD would those be shipped to NL?



What I wonder – would these cams also work in a ‘standard’head? (not sure if such cams will ruin dynamic compression). Otherwise, I would already run the cams in the car, and parallel do the head. (though time spent does not sound like a lot)



Thanks!

BR

Arno

Use the comparison of the 10548-01 cam intake`s profile to the other intakes in the pdf file.
On the Alfa cams estimate .020 (.5mm) as typical lash. So the 10548-01 actual duration at true valve lift with .020 lash is appx 280 degrees of duration.
If you look at the RjR195 and lash for my cams will be .010-.012 then duration at .010 is 275,
The RjR 195 at .050 with lash is apx 240 deg where the 10548-01 is about 220 and etc. Compare the other and you can see the reduce corrected early lifts to reduce overlap, and the increased duration where the valves are truly flowing. Plus the increased lift getting the valve farther from the seat which improves flow at all ranges of cam duration.

The exhaust cam design`s (RjR1032) lesser early duration allows the exhaust Valve events to happen later (EXH opens later increasing the power stroke & reducing overlap) and with more duration & lift which improves extraction.

Actually I think with your application you should consider the RjR590 intake as it has a bit more lift but similar low off the seat #s.

As to camming engines the cams used in the 2 liter really don`t have much different requirments. Use and engine build are the key elements. The larger valves/seats & ports compensate for the displacement. These same cams would be excellent performance street cams. For more aggressive use for stock 2 liter motors the RjR429/776 exh would be a typical choice.

For some reason i cannot find the rolling road overview. Have requested a copy from the company, I hope they will sent me one soon. Once I have received, I would like to bother you once more, to facilitate the decision for the set. I did the comparison (see below) and understand (I think J) what you mean with the combination/ramp in terms of Torgue and HP.

What I would like to understand is the result of the 2 combinations versus my current setup – in terms of powerband and Torgue/rpm, maybe I just need to run the car differently J. Furthermore, I use a 123 ignition – would you happen to have a suggestion on the ‘best’ curve on the final combination of cams?

Sorry for all the questions – I do appreciate your time and efforts!
did a comparison and understand your input. So I agree that the 590 is a good alternative (with no other adjustments I assume). Then I think you advise 1032 on the exhaust. Correct?



So: then the combination would be

INLET: 590, exhaust, 1032

Shave 1 mm (to use with 95 octane)

75 degree valve cut

‘opening’ the ports

3.0 V6 exhaust guides with ‘green’ seals


.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Starter & Flywheel Application

The Starter and flywheel match problem continuously comes up....
Perhaps this will make the matching of starter designs to the ring gear designs more clear.....


Alfar7
Richard Jemison


Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, Fl. U.S.A.
Posts: 3,883
Starters
None of them are gear reduction.

The early 130 tooth is a common "wound" magnet type starter, the later "high Torque" smaller unit, is a permanant magnet type starter.

Starters from the early 1972 to 1974 cars or the starter from 1990-1994 can be interchanged.

NOTE! Starters from 1975 through 1989 are for 131 tooth and none of these can be fitted to the 130 tooth flywheel, including the small permanant magnet starter used in the mid/late `80`s. These part #s are:0001108024 or 031.

The Old type starter for 130 tooth ringgears is part # 0001211987.
The late model (90-94) smaller & lighter permanant magnet starter, is
part # 0-001-108081.

Both (actually all the 2 liter starters) are 9 tooth starters. Difference in ALL of the alfa starters is NOT tooth count but the gear centering position relative to the 3 bolt mounting position.
__________________
Richard Jemison
RJR Racing
Richard Jemison Racing
 
#9 ·
Un-nessary engine components / Stock cam timing

From another post of mine expanded a bit here.

You get benefit from the 10548-01 only because of the minor lift improvement and the small increase in duration that results from that lift. The lobe design is no more than a larger 9.6mm stock cam.

As I have said many times, both the 10548-01 and it`s smaller stock cousins have lobes designed for gentle lift and closings, and reduced wear to keep the cars out of the dealer`s shop through the warranty period. These are not "performance enhancers" just as the "S" cams in the V6 application where the only change is again only an enlarged intake lobe.

The correct timing of all the carbed Alfa`s was changed in a TSB from 102 (the stock mark) to 104 (both in & ex). That basically means the cam`s marks are positioned just outside (toward each side of the head) of the 102 mark on the cam cap. The marks should basically match the outside edge of the cap mark with the leading edge of the cam mark. This reduces the inherant excessive overlap due to the slow ramp rate. As well the wider LSA improves the valve timing events for better power (increased power stroke and combustion pressures).

However you set up Alfa stock cams the valve events won`t be as good as they can be because of lobe design.
Not until the TS did Alfa make an effort to improve the lobe profiles used on the intake and exhaust sides. Though the ramp rates are still slow (for the same reason as earlier versions) they do have less overlap and a different profile on each side to improve timing the valve events.

It amazes me the foolish manouvers used by engine "builders" to sell costly modifications to gullible Alfa owners for increasing output for non racing engines. It always starts in Europe. Big valves, Reducing the size of the exhaust seat/valve, small stem valves and their related parts etc. In an all out racing engine "some" of this is useful. In a performance street motor none of it is appropriate.
Here`s a perfect example forwarded to me by Bill Theobold.

2.0 Nord Trackday/Rally/Race Head – Big Valve | Classic Alfa Romeo spare parts and accessories

$6000.00 and 185 crank hp. Pitiful. Requires relocating the spark plug, inserting larger seats, all the components for converting to large valves with small stems and still makes no more HP than Ed`s stock size valve head using 40mm emission Webers.

If you have pi$$ away money go ahead and buy the Bling!
If you read the earlier post in this thread on head prep you can see how to do it without spendin lots of money.

Here`s a pic that can be used to explain why stock size valves on an opened stock seat will out flow oversized valves on that same seat. Note:

The outside diameter of the seat is 46mm.

Using any size oversize valve will come with a 45 degree seat. Typically with 45mm stainless valves as commonly sold
Opening the seat correctly with a 75 degree cutter leaving a 1mm seat width for the 45 degree valve to seat on leaves justover 44 mm internal width. This width seat is absolutely necessary as the 45 degree seat exerts a multiple of outward pressure in the seats "lip". Even with a wide .040 seat with these thin seats will spread at higher spring loads and seat pressures along with high RPM. You are also dealing with a heavier valve with larger versions which is not advantageous and increases seat stress as the seat is stopping the valve...

If you open the same stock seat with a 75 degree cutter to the inside diameter to fit a .5mm (.020) seat on a stock size 44 mm valve (43 mm at valve contact point. The 30 degree seat is far less damaging to the seat as less outward force. Using the stock 30 degree seat design you have only a
.020 (.5mm) overhang that the air/fuel mix has in its way into the chamber. As opposed to the 1mm overhang if using a 45 mm valve. Using 46mm valves on stock seats is beyond reason. Max flow isn`t about valve size but seat inside diameter and shape. The old 3 angle seats described in JK`s book is quite wrong for any performance application.

Note in the drawing the 46mm valve`s od is cut back to reduce the overhang...
 

Attachments

#13 ·
I have a set of very good 2.5 heads I would like to use on a 3.0 short block I have. I've heard that it's possible to do that with some machining. What's involved in that, Richard, or is it even possible?
 
#14 · (Edited)
2.5 heads

I have a set of very good 2.5 heads I would like to use on a 3.0 short block I have. I've heard that it's possible to do that with some machining. What's involved in that, Richard, or is it even possible?
The only "interferance" with putting the 2.5 heads on a 3.0 liter engine is possibly the the oiling nipple in th block that fits into the head.
On early 2.5 heads the "nipple" was smaller than those in the 3.0 later motors. I think the later 2.5 blocks used the same nipple design as the 3.0 motors.

The combustion chamber is obviously smaller but does not interfere with the piston. With the 9.0 pistons the heads bump CR to just over 10.7 to 1. With "S" 10.0 pistons just over 12 to 1.

I used the "S" pistons, 2.5 Alfa Sei heads with good large porting and my typical valve seat mods and stainless valves, (Stock OD exh and 1mm oversize intake. With my cams and three 50 DCO Weber carbs engine made over 320 HP and was more than impressive performance wise!
Inexpensive to build and maintain.
Pics are of car right after building before the cold air boxes on the carbs.
 

Attachments

#15 ·
Sounds pretty easy then. Just open up the pocket in the head for oil nipple and go. Or do you think I'll need to open up the valve like you did to get it to breathe at all? It is a late 164 L short block I have, so I assume that is 9.0 pistons. That should be fine. It's going in a 79 Spider, so about 2x the HP over the stock Nord should be more than plenty. I would love to use carbs on it, but I have decided to stick with the FI.

Thanks Richard!
 
#17 ·
Dropped Spindles/suspension changes & improvements

From another BB thread.............

Please excuse me for joining this conversation so late. I have enjoyed reading this thread but have a bump steer question. Changing the spindle height should also change the height and different "point in space" of the steering arm? This as I understand effects bump steer.
Alfaholics sells shorter and flatter steering arms, a good idea?
Actually when using "Dropped Spindles" it depends on the length increase at the bottom of the "upright".

To be clear the actual spindle isn`t moved. The upright below it is has to be lengthened which raises the spindle relative to the lower ball joint.

As well the additional length of the upright raises the upper "A" arm which will both raise the roll center, and additionally raising the upper arm does more, it increases camber gain as the wheel raises relative to the chassis (as it would be loaded during a corner on the outside, while the wheel inside the turn "droops" the camber is decreased. Both giving a better contact patch for the tires` tread at the road surface.

To maximize the latter (camber changes) the lower "A" arm should be positioned level with the road surface on street cars, and a bit (1/4" lower than level (on the spindle end) on race cars to maximize the negative camber gain on race applications on the loaded wheel when turning in at a corner.
The last thing you want on the suspension is a lower "A" arm that is higher on the spindle end that at the chassis. (What you get with shorter springs:no:)

Depending on the amount of "drop, (or length added below the spindle) which is a factor of wheel clearance, then steering arm modifications may or may not be wanted. On most modified spindles to fit stock wheels or those allowed by SCCA or Vintage groups about 3/4' to 1' is all that will fit. With that drop in ride height with a level lower "A" arm typically the stock steering arm on this ride height works great. (As an aside, where wheel rim does not allow but a small amount of lengthening the lower upright, the upright can be lengthened additionally at the top to farther raise the upper arm to get better suspension geometry for track applications). I have seen "dropped spindles" made by orgers where the top was "shortened" to keep the same upright length. This kills the suspension camber improvements you are after....

For drop spindles with greater ride height reductions a less upward incline is needed. IE straighter arm. If the car is lowered a lot with additional lower "A" arm droop (higher at the upright end than at the chassis) a more severly modified steering arm is needed (or the stock or straightened arms swapped sides (Left to the Right side and v v) with the steering link mounted on top rather than under. Or you can weld the hole closed and retaper from the bottom if you need to fine tune such)

The dropped spindle affects another steering factor in that you can tune the position (height) and change (increase) the "angle" of the modified steering arms position relative to the spindle`s straight ahead position) to increase the Ackerman angles, to make both front tires effective in cornering rather than the inside wheel offering no "positive" slip angle to the road`s surface. Commonly it`s just along for the ride. With the "dropped & lengthened upright improving the inside tires contact patch it should be used. (Commonly you see race cars with the inside tire/wheel at a severe neg camber angle with nothing but the inside edge of the tread being drug through the corner)

Using adjustable upper "A" arms is necessary to tune any front suspension correctly.

Pics of various type Alfa dropped spindles are in my website
 
#22 ·
The dropped spindle affects another steering factor in that you can tune the position (height) and change (increase) the "angle" of the modified steering arms position relative to the spindle`s straight ahead position) to increase the Ackerman angles, to make both front tires effective in cornering rather than the inside wheel offering no "positive" slip angle to the road`s surface. Commonly it`s just along for the ride. With the "dropped & lengthened upright improving the inside tires contact patch it should be used. (Commonly you see race cars with the inside tire/wheel at a severe neg camber angle with nothing but the inside edge of the tread being drug through the corner)
Richard
Would you be willing to go into more detail on this? I'm running dropped spindles on my Alfetta, as you note the max drop with 15" wheels is 1". The lower Arm is level but the I would like to lower the car more which of course will have the negative effect of making the lower A arm higher at the spindle end. How do I then make the correction to get the proper Ackerman to improve the inside tires contact patch?
Thanks
 
#18 · (Edited)
Negative camber rear axle modification

Quote:
Using high misalignment outer wheel bearings I have seen teams bend axle tubes to create negative camber on a live axle rear, I believe NASCAR boys do this but I am reading here that the Alfisti do this also?
Actually, using the 115 rear axle assembly with LSD internals the axles can be de-cambered about .5 degree (each side) and it is "accomodated" by the loose fitting drive sleeve in the LSD unit.

The proceedure I use is quite simple. It also allows some creation of minor amount of toe-in to keep the rear more stable under braking, or to effect thrust angle corrections of poorly built rear assemblies.

Anytime you heat a spot of metal and then quench it with water or wet cloth it shrinks. So you could heat till red hot "quarter" size spots from the axle tubes outward (at the tubes top) to draw the tube creating a gental curve upward bringing the bearing carrier to a negative camber on each side of the axle. This takes a while....
A simplier process is using a mig welder, to run a well defined bead from the inner mount of the axle tube along the top area of the tube out to the area of the lower locating arm brackets. after doing each side you will find a neg camber of .5 degree on each side.
I commonly place my weld bead just forward on the axle tube about 1/2 inch from top-center. This minor "offset" of the weld bead will give barely measurable toe-in of the two wheel positions.
To improve this "toe-in" or correct thrust angle differences, shorter beads can be ran along the front center (or rear center) of the tube to draw in the needed amount to perfect the alignment of the axle`s wheels. Major thrust angle problems are an issue with the lower arm lengths.

On my race cars I replace the lower arm rear bushing with a machined aluminum bushing and use a sprerical bearing rod end on the front to allow both alignment and movement of the axle up & down without binding.
This allows a stable lower arm for spring/shock mounting with no wobble as you will have using spherical bearings in both ends of the lower arm. (The CAS manual showed such on 101/750 design lower arms that had no spring mounts and had onlt front/rear loading so there was no issues there.)

You can see pics of these mods at post 186 (I think) at:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/motorsports/146464-old-alfa-racer-pics-so-west-div.html
__________________
Richard Jemison
RJR Racing
Richard Jemison Racing
 
#24 ·
Piston mods and compression ratios

This question came from a friend in Sweeden..

In a message dated 8/28/2014 7:59:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Perxxxxxxx@sodexo.com writes:
Hi Richard.

I’m about to repair a spare 2L motor with Borgo 10;4:1 pistons. One liner is rusty and one piston is frozen after a head gasket faliure. I will change the rings, put in another good used liner and cut the head, and while all this is apart:

I have seen in some picture that you have cut the top of some 10.4:1 pistons in order to lighten and improve combustion.

How much did you cut the piston?

In order to get the right compression in a motor with cut pistons and a RJR 221 /Shankle exhaust cam combo, how high should the head be after cutting?

Best Regards
Perxxxxxxxx
-------------------

Per... What is the compression ratio you are shooting for after the rebuild?

First the pistons. The old 10.4 Borgo pistons don`t have the additional metal around the sides of the dome to close up the squish area as was designed into the 10.0 to 1 Motronic pistons(which are closer to about 9.8), or aftermarket race pistons which are the one`s we cut to get lower CR using them in a street motor.
In fact the "10.4 designation was optimistic at best, and closer to 10.2 in a uncut stock head. Still, when these were popular it was a good improvement over the stock 9.0 to 1 stock pistons.

I would only suggest cutting 1mm to 1.5 mm from the dome. But you can cut away 15mm easily from the bottom of the piston skirts to lighten them. Knurl around the skirt afterwards to swell the metal and create a oil retaining area. This is a good idea any time you are reusing pistons/liners to control piston side to side movement which unseats and causes rounded ring wear.

Have you considered finding a used set of Motronic pistons since you obviously are building this on a budget? You can lighten these by skirt cutting (and knurling) as well.

There`s little reason to shoot for less CR than 10.5 and commonly I try for 10.7 on street motors with our max 92 octane pump gas.

The "Head Milling" I suggest below is based on cutting a stock thickness head (4.410 / 112.2mm ? ) to get to about 10.5 to 1 CR.

--With the unmodified 10.4 Borgo piston domes cut the head .025 (.6mm)
--10.4 Borgo dome flattened .050, cut the head.040 (1mm)
--Using Motronic pistons cut .040

If your fuel available is higher than ours and you want to shoot for a better CR than 10.5 the head can be cut more to get there.
 
#25 ·
Race engine problems and TS considerations

Rather lengthy, and some info might aggravate, but as Jack Webb said, "only the facts mam"

Dear Richard,

I allways read with interest your comments on the AlfaBB concerning engine preparation.
At the moment I run a Nord with 85mm JE pistons and EFI (DTA computer , Jenvey ITB).
Since this engine is at the border of its power, and we have regular problems with it I am contemplating building a TS .
I would like some advice on cams, and headwork to be done (or not to be done...). The cams you design are working nice (a fellow racer has them in a nord and is very happy with them).

Hope you can take some time to inform me, it is for a full race engine.

Regards,

Walter xxx xxxxxxxxxxxx
The Netherlands
In a message dated 8/28/2014 10:30:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time, AlfaR7@aol.com writes:

Walter,
Some questions, but I also have to think you might be missing the point by considering building a TS after all the extensive work done on your Nord motor.

I and all, know well the "advertised" power being made by certain British builder/supplier. However these expensive engines checked on "honest" and "calibrated" dynos by unquestionable builders here in the USA are only making about 85% of the "guaranteed output".

Not knowing your internal build info, or problems with the Nord I wouldn't jump into that without serious thought.
What are your problem issues with the Nord? What are the internals? Head mods and cams used? What HP are you getting on your dyno?

About the only thing I would want from a TS is the crankshaft from a 155 to get the longer stroke. This will fit in the Nord block.

As for TS cams I would suggest the RjR575 intake and RjR1291 exhaust. These will require head mods to clear the lift including short guides set deep, race springs, notches to clear lobes in the cam follower bores etc. Smoothing out the intake runners and reshaping the seats will improve flow, however don`t get caught up in the large intake valve, small exh valve mods.

See attached PDF file of full lobe profiles.

A successful race engine isn`t about high RPM power, It`s about power made over a useful power band to make an easily driven race car.

If you are having issues because of high rpm failures, you will have the same with a TS.

Rj
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Richard,

Problems we had are somewhat related to overrevving , own fault, but issues with leakage test since. Engine is now apart, almost in the car again and will be dynoed in the next few weeks.
Internals are a knife edged crank, 85mm HC pistons (spruell supplied these), H beam rods, 45 mm intake valves (reading your comments we shouldn`t have bothered) also Spruell, as are his valve springs, highest rate he has. stock exhaust valves
CB cams intake 12.9 lift and exhaust 11.3 (diagram I have not at hand at this moment).
Long aluminium intakes (Alfaholics) and off course the DTA EFI.

Rear wheel HP when engine was just run in 171 at 7000 rpm`s, torque 180 nm also at the wheels, I do however not have the dyno print at hand now for the curves.

Reason I am contemplating on a TS is that engines (especialy the 155 and 164 2nd series which also has the 90 stroke crank) are more available overhere than a 105 2 liter, and I am building a FIA car (GTAM replica) that can get the 2 liter fitted, with carburators (I have 45 mm dell orto with 36 venturi).
I will need in the end a second engine when that car is finished (almost on its axles by now) and have to go from scratch, no spare parts to mention.

I am told by several engine builders the 155 block is stiffer than earlier blocks, with also stronger main bearings (I am aware of the tales AH , Formula GT and so on tell on HP , but I also know I am with my current engine just as fast on Castle Combe, their home and main testcircuit as Max with his 215 HP TS). And torque on any TS I seen and drove, and experienced has way better torque at lower rpm`s , better on the more twisty tracks overhere than just the high HP at high RPM.

I appreciate your thoughts on this.

Regards, Walter
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walter,
Several things caught my eye.

The knife edged crank to start.
Alfa Nord 2 Liter cranks have inadequate weight in the counter throws to correctly balance an engine for use over 6000 RPM even with light Carillo rods and light pistons. Knife edging compounds the problem.
If you are having crank/bearing issues blame the knife edging. (I do assume the block has been drilled for direct oiling on #2 & #4 main. If not it should be.)

There are light billet 2 liter cranks being made by Marine in Calif. Will send you an email with the info. These light cranks have adequate designed counterweights for higher RPM use.

The camshafts. I am unaware of any 12.9mm lift cam made by C&B for any Alfa. None at all on their website. Never heard reference to such.
Regardless the C&B`s typical designs are high overlap designs and the exh cam has to be another C&B "intake" cam by design and incorrect for the exhaust side.
Correct cams will both make a more powerful motor and do it at reasonable RPM. As well the power band will be much larger/longer. Again those cams I suggested for the TS are what the serious engine builders over here are using. There are no TS cars (even the 2 with AH motors), running competitively against well built Nord motors. Typical baseline rear wheel HP on these is 190 and above....

If your head hasn`t been "High Ported" it should be. See my intake at post 179 at:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/motorsports/146464-old-alfa-racer-pics-so-west-div-4.html

Don`t use Delorto carbs. They won`t flow as well as Webers. As well you should use 48mm carbs if racing with carbs at a minimum. I`m using to 50 DCO carbs but they require a custom manifold due to width.
48mm DCOEs can be modified at the middle shaft ends to fit a stock Alfa intake opened up to fit big runners.

The "Torque" you mention is not the TS design, but cams being used. Those are the engine`s brain. (As well the engines are most likely using the longer stroke crank, legal or not...)

What is the Throttle body size? Shouldn`t be any smaller than 45mm and preferably larger. Hopefully fed from a cold air box, not airhorns in the engine compartment.
Rj
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Richard, thank you very very much for putting me back on my feet concerning the possibilities of the old nord engine.


Few question still :
First price of the camset as you adviced?


Second the crank, you know a price of the firm you mentioned? And the 90mm crank 155, use eith its own shorter rods to prevent protruding pistons? Or use longer nord rods with changed piston pin location?
And last what is your opinion on the " apple bite" pistons from Spruell?


O and one more: do you plan any CR gearboxes in the near future, might be interested in one if shipping to holland is no problem for you?


Regards Walter
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Walter,
-Cams (a pair of any lobe design) shipped to Europe is $xxxxx USD.
I keep a pair of the RjR575/RjR1291 cams in stock because of demand. If you catch me out of stock build time is normally about 2-3 weeks, but I order as soon as stock ones are bought.

-Billet Crank by Marine. I don`t know for sure but I think it`s about a $3,200.00 item. Jon Norman, Alfa Parts, Berkeley, Calif. is the Distributor (ALFA PARTS - Alfa Romeo Parts, Spares, Accessories 800-890-ALFA)

-155 crank : I think using it and the 155 rods would fit on your pistons.

-The Apple bite Pistons. I`m no fan. I bought a set and they measured 84.5mm at the skirts!! Had to bore new liners to fit as skirt clearance was .024 (.55mm) in the 85mm liners. I`m not the only one with size issues with these pistons. See Bill xxxxxxxxx`s mail I cut and pasted below.
In my opinion (?) the dome design is good for fitting in a 2 liter Nords 4 different shaped combustion chambers, but the "applebite" and with the really big valve reliefs are not appropriate re compression increase. And that's why they only produce about 11.5 CR in a full thickness head.... If the existing uncut dome design was simply flat cut about .050 off the peak, and valve reliefs sized correctly and not as deep they would be more effective. The dome of the pistons will still fit a head (that is stock thickness 4.410") with .020(.5mm) milled off of it to improve the combustion ratio.(to 4.390 thick )

-I keep at least one CR box built on the shelf. Right now there are two. Both with the rear tower shields to prevent spray into the shifter tower.

One is a 1.99/1.59/1.25/1.0/.92
the other is a 1.85/1.59/1.25/1.0/.92
Cost $xxxxxx complete box or gearset complete with syncros $xxxxxx plus shipping (gears only about $130.00-$150 to Europe.
An entire trans I suspect will be $350-400.00 at least since everything goes by Air from here).


Thanks, Rj

Hi Richard,
I now have sympathy for what happened to you with Spruell’s CP pistons. I finally got them with the bored out sleeves only to find out when I measured the skirts that 2 of them were 0.004” oversize and the other 2 were on the money. See data I sent to Spruell below. I have to put the sleeves in a block with my torque plate and remeasure when I get them back to verify accuracy, but the static measurement is close.


I called CP myself to find out what was going on and talked to the general manager, he didn’t have an answer. Spruell insisted that I send the pistons back to him for return to CP. They went to Spruell then to CP, who has subsequently made a new set and sent them to Spruell who should have them already if not by Tuesday. (I called CP to verify their return). So my situation sounds similar to yours, which wasn’t Spruell’s fault (other than he didn’t measure the pistons when he received them and he told me that the liners were match bored to the pistons, which is obviously bu!!****.) Hopefully I`ll be able to build the new motor before the end of the year.!!!!


BTW: the OSG CR gear set is still performing beautifully. I still have oil leaking at the exit of the shift tubes on the front / top of the gear box. Any thoughts on how to stop this.???


Any new cam revelations I should know about for the new motor. With the: 31 lb. billet crank, 360 gram CP pistons and light weight Carrillo rods my plan is to run the engine up to 8500 rpm. I’m putting 46mm X 8mm lighted Ferrara intake and 38mm X 8mm lightened Ferrera exhaust valves in the head with new seats, springs, etc.


Hope all is well, see you're back on the BB so that's a good thing?

Forgot to provide raw measurement data.


bill xxxxxxxxxMeasuring Instruments:
Mitutoyo 3-4” micrometer Model #013-218 / .0001” per increment resolution, calibrated to the national bureau of standards.
Mitutoyo Dial Bore gauge Model #511-753 / .0001” per increment resolution

Raw data:
Coated CP Pistons:
#1 = 3.3491+/-.0001”
#2 = 3.3445+/-.0001”
#3 = 3.3453+/-.0001”
#4 = 3.3497+/-.0001”


Sleeve #1 = 3.3497 +.0016" (top) +.0024" (bottom) of measurement area.
Sleeve #2 = 3.3497 +.0016" (top) +.0023" (bottom) of measurement area.
Sleeve #3 = 3.3497 +.0012" (top) +.0021" (bottom) of measurement area.
Sleeve #4 = 3.3497 +.0012" (top) +.0021" (bottom) of measurement area.
 
#26 ·
Cooling Transmissions & Transaxles

In a message dated 9/2/2014 11:48:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mirko@xxxxxxxxxxxfin.com writes:
Hi Richard,
Just wanted to ask if you have experience with external cooling of the Milano gearbox. Is it possible, and is it worthwhile? I found a diagram of the SZ cooling setup for the gearbox, and at first glance it seems to be similar to my "platinum" box. Thoughts?

Thanks!
Mirko xxxxxxxx
It is easy enough to install an outlet to an elec pump to transfer gearlube through an oil cooler and back to the fill hole or the reverse switch outlet. Or a drilled hole in the case.

However you must keep the oil cooler and pump below the level of lube required in the transaxle (or transmission ) and have the system full when setting lube level in the unit.

Rj
 
#27 ·
just to complement things I did not mention in the mail:
The 12.9 CB is probably a camshaft made for a dutch tuner who had a close relationship with the guys at CB who made several own design cams for him
I try to dig up the diagram, I think Catcams has one in the catalogue also, as is a 12.7 cam copied I think of a CB one also.
 
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