82-89 Spider Crank Sensor Wiring Diagram - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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82-89 Spider Crank Sensor Wiring Diagram

I'm using a crank sensor from a 82-89 Spider (Bosch #0 261 210 001; Alfa #115 44 05 013 00/00) for an EFI conversion.

Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the three pin connector?

Thanks, Mike

Mike
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 12:19 PM
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Bosch #0 261 210 001 is a motronic sensor, so S4 spider (90-94)

what exactly do you mean by wiring dia for the connector?

this is sensor and the plug connector from wiring diagram
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderserie4 View Post
Bosch #0 261 210 001 is a motronic sensor, so S4 spider (90-94)

what exactly do you mean by wiring dia for the connector?

this is sensor and the plug connector from wiring diagram
I need to know which each of the three pins in the connector are used for. I'm not replacing it, but using it in a bespoke EFI conversion (Megasquirt). I suppose one is hot (+ 12v or 5v) one is ground and one is the reluctor output, but that's just an (barely-college physics 35+ years ago) educated guess.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 05:24 PM
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Keeping in mind that my knowledge of automotive electrical wiring is limited to the smoke theory... I think one of the terminals is for a shielding wire. I don't think the other two carry any current but are rather for the sense circuitry. I probably have a dead sensor lying around. If you'd like one to dissect let me know (send your mailing address via PM).
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks. I'm fairly familiar with "smoke tests", starting with dropping a wrench across the car battery terminals in high school (actually, maybe that was an intro into arc welding).

I see the same numbers on a multimeter as your picture. I actually did take one apart (I'm now down to one of them) and that didn't help (I don't claim to be a surgeon).

The weird thing is one of the pins is supposed to be ground and the body of the sensor isn't grounded to any of the pins.

Mike
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 06:40 PM
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I can't remember if I took one apart. (actually, I'm finding I can't remember a lot of things...) But I think the 'ground' wire is not that exactly but rather one of those wire sleeve things that have something to do with protecting the sensing wires from outside influence. Unless I am not remembering correctly...

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 07:54 PM
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If it is an inductive (reluctance) sensor then the two pins that show a low resistance are the ones to use. I think that they are not polarized and either one can be signal and the other is ground. The braid is a shield which is normally grounded at the computer end only.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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Any ideas on how to tell if it is a reluctance or Hall sensor? I'm pretty sure it is a '90s flywheel sensor.

Mike
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 12:11 AM
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according to a document (Motronic ML4.1) I have it states: "the CAS consists of an inductive magnet that radiates a magnetic field"

& yes, the CAS/Crank angle sensor Bosch # you give above is definitely a 90> Motronic ML4.1 sensor, not 82>89 L-Jetronic (which used 2 flywheel sensors instead)

so with the Motronic CAS sensor, we have the following:
pin#1 (yellow) goes to ECU pin #25
pin#2 (red) goes to ECU pin #23
pin#3 is a screen wire, also goes to ECU pin #23 (basically against interference from Radio etc)

the ECU itself is grounded at pins #16 and #19 (from engine main ECU ground bundle at cylinder head)

the ECU supply voltage is 5V (4.4V), not 12V

whether any of that helps?
Dom

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.

Last edited by spiderserie4; 01-23-2019 at 01:37 AM.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 07:39 AM
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The photos in reply #4 are from a Bosch L-jetronic Series 3 Spider ('82-'89). L-jet used two sensors aimed at the flywheel. The sensors are identical but one is aimed at a small nib in the edge of the flywheel (to sense position for timing), the other is aimed at the ring gear (to sense speed for rpm's).

The '90-'94 Spiders have Bosch Motronic. It uses one sensor at the crank pulley which combines both the speed & position sensing into the one unit.

- - Eric
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~ 1984 Spider Veloce ~
- -~ 1981 GTV-6 ~
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 07:14 AM Thread Starter
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Spiderserie4,

That's a big help. Thank you!

I'm going to be using this with a MegaSquirt ECU. Do you happen to know what pin #1 & #2 are, so I can hook them up to the proper MegaSquirt terminals? Would it be possible to send me the Motronic document?

Thanks again, Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderserie4 View Post
according to a document (Motronic ML4.1) I have it states: "the CAS consists of an inductive magnet that radiates a magnetic field"

& yes, the CAS/Crank angle sensor Bosch # you give above is definitely a 90> Motronic ML4.1 sensor, not 82>89 L-Jetronic (which used 2 flywheel sensors instead)

so with the Motronic CAS sensor, we have the following:
pin#1 (yellow) goes to ECU pin #25
pin#2 (red) goes to ECU pin #23
pin#3 is a screen wire, also goes to ECU pin #23 (basically against interference from Radio etc)

the ECU itself is grounded at pins #16 and #19 (from engine main ECU ground bundle at cylinder head)

the ECU supply voltage is 5V (4.4V), not 12V

whether any of that helps?
Dom

Mike
1969 GTV 1750
1966 Super
San Diego, CA

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 08:51 AM
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when you say pin #1 & #2
do you mean the ECU pins?...if so, then
pin #1 is thick white to ignition coil negative (1) side
pin #2 is thin white to centre pin of TPS (Throttle position sensor)

However, if you meant pin #1 & #2 of the CAS
, then I can only quote you what I read from a Twinspark ECU thread (also motronic 4.1), somewhere here on BB....which I gather (in this particular case) is the same as the spider motronic....the TS Ecu pinouts differ elsewhere.
CAS pin#1 to ECU pin#25: yellow wire / engine speed in (-), ground side of CAS reluctor sensor
CAS pin#2 to ECU pin#23: green wire / engine speed in (+), signal side of CAS reluctor sensor.

I enclose page from wiring diagram of spider motronic ECU pinouts and the GM motronic 4.1 doc., which just explains the workings a little clearer, but nothing too deep or new there....and GM pinouts might vary to alfa.
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File Type: pdf s4 electrical diagram 19.pdf (52.7 KB, 21 views)
File Type: pdf Opel_MotronicML4.1.pdf (38.9 KB, 23 views)

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.

Last edited by spiderserie4; 01-25-2019 at 09:02 AM.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Do you know which pin in the CAS is #1?

In the attached picture of the connector would pin #1 be on the left or the right?



However, if you meant pin #1 & #2 of the CAS[/I], then I can only quote you what I read from a Twinspark ECU thread (also motronic 4.1), somewhere here on BB....which I gather (in this particular case) is the same as the spider motronic....the TS Ecu pinouts differ elsewhere.
CAS pin#1 to ECU pin#25: yellow wire / engine speed in (-), ground side of CAS reluctor sensor
CAS pin#2 to ECU pin#23: green wire / engine speed in (+), signal side of CAS reluctor sensor.

I enclose page from wiring diagram of spider motronic ECU pinouts and the GM motronic 4.1 doc., which just explains the workings a little clearer, but nothing too deep or new there....and GM pinouts might vary to alfa.[/QUOTE]
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1969 GTV 1750
1966 Super
San Diego, CA

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 03:30 AM
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based on this diagram of the CAS on a 164 (I added the red dots pointing to the nubs on the plug, two one side, one on the other), where the pins are marked A / B / cover (cover must be the screen, or on our CAS, pin #3)

by elimination therefore, I would say pin #1 is the left in your photo
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 04:41 AM
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Hi-

A good confirmation would be to set up your toothed wheel "simulator" and scope the output of the sensor-

Also, some good info here:
Microsquirt_Hardware-3.4 page 48

Al Mitchell
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