Bosch 229 distributor - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-20-2018, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
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Bosch 229 distributor

Hi,
I'm building a 2L liter 512 motor in original form, 9:1 pistons, original cams 10548.
I have to choise the distributor.
I have a new bosch distributor 229 with vacuum advance.
I'd like to lock the vacuum advance plate so to have only the mechanical advance.
Can anybody tell me the curve that I would get with this change?
Thanks
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-27-2018, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
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I believe nobody has tried this change.
do you think it is possible to open a tread where to share ideas for the creation of a test bench for distributors?
for the reading of the advance degrees I thought to use a strobostropic gun, I do not know how to manage the rotation control
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 05:47 AM
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I have measured distributors by running them on engines and collecting data from a good tachometer and an adjustable timing light. It is simple if you have a helper to hold it at a certain rpm while you read the timing light.

Maybe you have no replies because no one knows what a Bosch 229 is.

Ed Prytherch
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
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Hi,
Sorry for mistake, bosch distributor is 0231170229
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 01:14 PM
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What would be the reason for deleting vacuum advance on a standard engine?
Vacuum advance helps on partial load (lean mixture) and has no effect on full throttle.

I would use your new 0231170229 as intended, it's set for your standard 2L Nord.

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 02:55 PM
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I have fully mapped ignition on my GTV6 and I tried adding advance to correspond to vacuum advance and I could not find any effect. In theory additional advance will help leaner mixtures burn but I run AFR's of 15 to 16 at part throttle and the additional advance was of no benefit. I now run a simple advance curve, like a distributor with no vacuum advance and the engine runs very well throughout the range of RPM and load.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 03:14 PM
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Sorry for the delay. I first had to find the curves, that were in text form only, and then draw the graphs.
The information comes from Petrol Engines Workshop manual #3469B dated 09/84.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Bosch 0 231 170 229.pdf (93.5 KB, 97 views)

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 04:47 PM
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Thanks for posting the curves, I had not seen them before.
The mechanical advance curve is slow. Performance engines usually have all of the advance in by 4000 rpm and some earlier. I would not choose this distributor for a motor that is intended to make good mid range torque.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-29-2018, 06:10 AM Thread Starter
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Hi, thanks for information.
My original distributor was 0231110045, I think his curve is more aggressive of 229.
I don't know the conditions of the old distributor.
I''m trying to find somebody with a distributor tester but it's not easy.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-29-2018, 06:49 AM
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0231110045 is a better choice. The range is 32 degrees and all the advance is in at 4000 rpm.

The curve is shown in post 19 of this thread http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engi...tml#post608678

Ed Prytherch
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Last edited by alfaparticle; 03-29-2018 at 06:55 AM.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 03:57 AM
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Hello, this topic's interesting to me as well. I've got a 1750 GTV with the 045 dizzie (non vac advance), and while the car goes well, I don't think the fuel mileage is good. it's only used for long trips and only makes about 30 mpg. We also have a couple of 1700 Alfasud boxer Alfas, with twin 40mm downdraught carbs, similar HP, but these cars do 35 mpg or more on trips, even though they're driven harder than the GTV. All the engines seem in pretty good condition. The GTV's carbs are well-tuned I reckon.
I know that vac adv can improve fuel mileage a lot, and I'd like to try a vac adv dizzie on the GTV.
I've got a spare 229 Bosch lying around, off an 1800 Alfetta, but as noted above the centrifugal advance curve on these is not much good for performance. Can anyone suggest a decent alternative that was used on some other Alfa with vac advance?
Thanks all,
Graham H, NZ
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 05:52 AM
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Are your gallons US or imperial. 30 mpg from a GTV with Webers in the US is outstanding and 24 is not bad. I would be surprised if vacuum advance changed it much but carburetor jetting can.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 07:13 AM
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The 60s Alfa cams, particularly the 10548, were more performance oriented than economy. RJ has done some interesting development on cams involving reduced overlap, with increased lift, the result being improved horsepower with improved low AND high RPM torque, with improved fuel economy due to reduced waste during overlap.

However, 30 MPG is excellent for the Nord, regardless of whether it’s Imperial or US gallons.

I’d leave well enough alone and put the time and money into something else.

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Past Alfas...
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 04:47 PM
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Thanks Ed, and thanks Don. (Don, are we the same Don P from the Sidedraught Central group conversation?)
Interesting to hear what you both say about GTV fuel consumption, with 30 mpg regarded as quite OK. (Note- we do have 10548 cams.)
My figs are with Imp galls, so with US galls they'd be about 20% worse I believe. But to counter that, I just now went to the car (it's stored off-site at present) and actually checked my log book, and found that in fact I was getting about 35 miles per Imp gall on recent trips, not the 30-ish I had in my mind. That would be close to the 30 miles per US gall that's regarded as OK.

So maybe things aren't so bad at all !!! Nonetheless, if I had a quick and easy way to add vac adv without losing the good adv curve of my current dizzy, I'd love to do it. In my mind, there's plenty of practical evidence to be found that this often gives 15-20% better cruise-mileage. But since I don't do a lot of miles, I'd be doing that really just for the hell of it, so as Don says, if it cost any significant amount there are better things to spend money on. If there's no suitable Alfa vac-adv dizzy that I could pick up cheaply from a parts-car, then I might still look at modifying the curve of the spare 229 unit I've got, to look more like the non-vac 045. Thanks Ed for the curves you've published for us, and thanks JK for an example of what I'd need to do.

Also referring to Don's posting, a while ago I did indeed have an email discussion with RJ about his cam-upgrade options for the GTV. Came to the conclusion that he certainly does have some very tempting and very suitable offerings, but the pretty solid cost (especially with shipping to NZ) was rather more than I could justify for our purposes. Pity!

Thanks again all,
Graham H (1750 GTV, Alfasud x3, 156 TS)
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 11:09 PM
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Crikey, I can't leave this alone, although I should be doing something more useful! Have just been looking at the curves Ed's provided for the 229 (vacuum-type) dizzy and seems to me that it could be made rather like the favoured 045 curve if we simply altered it by limiting its max adv to whatever it's reached at the 045's max-point which is 4,200rpm, then setting our initial advance so the 4,200 value is whatever max adv we want (which for me would be the same as Alfa specified for the 1750 with an 045 dizzie). I.e. we're simply offsetting the raw 229 curve upwards and cutting it off early, just as seen in the JK book where he modifies an 006 dizzie.
That'd give a dual-slope curve, nicely steepened to begin with, with same end-point (degrees and revs) as the 045, and without needing a silly amount of initial advance. Nothing to do to make this mod except change an end-stop (if the 229's got one).
Worth a shot?
Best regards,
Graham H

Last edited by Graham Hilder; 12-31-2018 at 01:38 AM. Reason: Missed a word in my typing!
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