COP with Motronic 4.1 - TS engine - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 3 (permalink) Old 08-27-2014, 06:58 AM Thread Starter
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COP with Motronic 4.1 - TS engine

I am considering installing coil over plugs on my 8V TS motor which is currently installed in a 116 GTV. I know of a few who have done so using an aftermarket ECU like megasquirt but I am keen to stay with the stock Motronic for now. Can anyone tell me why I couldn't hook up the two coil inputs to a Bosch 211 module (or maybe two of them) which then go on to eight COPs?

Would dwell be an issue? If so I don't believe I can adjust that with Motronic?

The engine is essentially stock and I am not looking for a miraculous power gain. I just want to learn more about how this works (and what better way than fiddling) plus I have packaging issues under the bonnet with the HT leads and front dizzy so this would help alleviate that.

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 3 (permalink) Old 09-12-2014, 07:10 PM
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The reason why you can't, with the standard TS Motronic, is that the computer only outputs a single ignition signal per firing event. For waste spark ignition on a 4 cylinder, there needs to be 2 completely separate signals. So 1 signal would trigger the ignition modules for cylinders 1 and 4, and the other signal would trigger the ignition modules for cylinders 2 and 3.
The ECU just cycles 1 -2 -1 - 2 -1 -2......... based on the missing tooth reset of the CAS.

Ultimately the version of the Motronic that Alfa used, is just too simple (they didn't even use linear TPS for acceleration enrichment). The Alfa spec version of the 4.1 fire all of the injectors all at once, even on the V6 engines...........

There was some chat about the front wheel drive (so later) versions of the 8 valve TS using waste spark ignition. If you really, really wanted to go COP and keep the Motronic, that'd be a start.

But having said all of that, the ignition system isn't going to be the power limiter of the engine, anyway.
You'd get better results from being able to specifically tune the ECU to suit your engine. He hasn't been real active lately, but PM Festy, he has been developing a real time tuning interface for the Motronic 4.1.

Slowly Progressing Vortech Supercharged 1990 Alfa Romeo 75 Potenziata. Out of Action Twin-Charged 1988 AW11 MR2. Current Daily Driver, The Glorified Taxi 2006 BF FPV F6 Typhoon.

Last edited by Duk; 09-12-2014 at 07:14 PM.
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post #3 of 3 (permalink) Old 09-17-2014, 06:20 PM
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If you modified one of the dizzies (lower one as it's out of the way) to provide a phase switch sending the motronic ignition pulses to 1/4 or 2/3 depending on where the dizzy shaft was - you could split the ignition logic that way.

If you used something like an arduino to run the logic you could code in some control of your dwell as well to suit the COP units. Some of the bike COPs have dwell protection built in which saves that issue. I think the Denso 4150 coils I used have this - but I haven't tested it as the Megasquirt controls it.

You can also use an arduino to monitor the TS low oil level sender - if it still works. You can interpolate Oil Temp from the thermistor reading that sensor uses as well - feed a gauge with an analog output... all the things !

Oops - digressed

I've just fitted one of Festy's motronic tuner kits to an ECU for trial in a friends car (hopefully this weekend) Very excited to get that installed. Will give us full data logging of the ECU data with added input from a wideband O2 sensor - hoping that will let us really dial the ECU in to the particular engine setup.


[B][COLOR=#696969]Scott Murray[/COLOR][/B]
[SIZE=1][COLOR=#808080]'04 156 JTS Sportwagon -- brilliant car for the daily, kids taxi and parts hauling[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][COLOR=#696969]in officina [/COLOR][COLOR=Blue]-
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[SIZE=1][COLOR=#808080]'66 Giulia Super 105.28.720988 -- TwinSpark+MS3+ITB+COP[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][COLOR=#808080]'65 Giulia Sprint GT 105.04.753710
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